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Old 01-31-2008, 12:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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HELP!! S&S 585 cams or not with my setup?!?

Question for this set up:

2007 FXDWG (TC96) currently with a SERT, S&S Hi Flo air cleaner/filter, Python Pipes (same as V&H Big Shots Staggered w/ crossover & baffles), dynoed at 74hp, 84 lb/tq, beautiful, flat graphs, runs great.

Going to do 103" kit with ported/polished heads, slightly domed pistons, upping compression a bit, S&S 585 gear drive cams, and a full dyno tune afterwards.

Looking to get minimum 94hp and 96 lb/tq peaks with nice, smooth graphs and great low end and midrange. Sound doable? Good choice of cams here, for this set up?

LET ME HEAR YA!
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Your estimates are low. That combo should produce those numbers no problem. Why the gear drive on an 07? Who's heads?
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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FXDRYDR is reading this now saying WTF is this? FXDRYDR is reading this now saying WTF is this?
I've got 585s in a 98 and it runs strong. I've heard some builders say they like them even better in a 103. You will easily make the numbers you're after and if parts are matched as they should be - a lot more.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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HDMD88 is reading this now saying WTF is this? HDMD88 is reading this now saying WTF is this?
If all your looking for is great pulling power down low and mid range I wouldn't use such a high lift cam when a .510 lift with 10:1 compression will do the trick, no roller rockers are needed either. Look at a TW6-6 or a Andrews 37 or even the 54.

If this build is done correct, with zero deck height and good heads you should have no problem seeing 105/110 with awesome low and mid range power.

Last edited by HDMD88; 01-31-2008 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdryder View Post
Why the gear drive on an 07? Who's heads?
The heads are being done by a local guy who has done them for something like 40 years, tons of experience.

Why not the gear-drive cams? I know from just about everyone and every mag that gear-drive is way better for HD V-Twins than the chain drive/tensioner setup, but don't the 07's need them too?
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Bump for last Q - anyone know the answer?
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Old 01-31-2008, 07:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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IMHO, there is nothing at all wrong with the gear drive cams. I think they are superior to the chains for sure....Just make sure your crank had the runout in spec and backlash is set properly. The only downside to geardrives for the 96 motors is the price$$$....
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Old 01-31-2008, 07:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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HDMD88 is reading this now saying WTF is this? HDMD88 is reading this now saying WTF is this?
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Originally Posted by PWRMAD View Post
Bump for last Q - anyone know the answer?

Have you ever rode with someone who had a secondary chain drive bike like a Shovel Head or Iron Head and watched the chain whip on the bottom as he is cruising? Well the first generation chain drive with the spring loaded tensioners allowed the cam chain to whip. This whipping action changed the cam timing which in turn changed the valve events and this had a performance drop to say the least. The best fix for this was to go with a gear drive to get a positive and consistent cam rotation, the down side to gear drives are setting up the back lash and making sure your pinion run out isn't too great other wise you have a noisy motor and cams rocking back and forth on the open and closing ramps which again changes your cam timing.

The 07 Roller chain drive has a hyd tensioner system that uses oil pressure to keep the chain tight so no whipping cam occur....the faster you go the more pressure is applied, so the cam stays in time, valve events are correct, no setting up back lash, and most of all pinion shaft run out is not a factor.

The new system has better pads for a much longer life than the old system also. This is all new and it's still proving itself in the performance realm but, all in all I would go with the roller chain drive over the gear drive in the 07 and later engines.
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Old 01-31-2008, 07:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well now that you explain it like that Doc.......haha.

I guess its tought to believe the chains are fine since the last 7 years we have all been replacing tensioners.

Never thought about the chains like that though, makes sense now. Thanks!!!!
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I have 'em...

I like 'em. See my sig. for my combo. I will say I think your better off with the next set smaller if you want low-to-mid. With my combo it does not really care for 25-28 mph if you get stuck behind grampa! Not a real happy gear w/o the pipes drawing attention in town, which I do my best to avoid. Loves to rev! If you are going for low-mid, flat, and 10:1, stay with the 560 or whatever the next step down is, particularly if you do a lot of 2-up riding. With those cubes you will hit your numbers and then some witth the smaller cams.
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWRMAD View Post
The heads are being done by a local guy who has done them for something like 40 years, tons of experience.
Now, who would that be?
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Well Doc answered much faster then me, but has the same answer I would have said, maybe not all the tech stuff on the valvetrain haha. Yeah sure the new system has not had the test of time like the earlier spring types, but none the less the superior engineering is obvious. Also not to mention I believe you would have to change cams, cam plate,oil pump etc just to make them work( huge money). Also on that same line of thought does anyone know what you would do for the inner cam bearings?
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Build

I'll chime in and say, that I can't say anything, other than we favor the Bob Wood 6 with our set-ups.
I can't type as fast as those other guys.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hillsidecycle.com View Post
I'll chime in and say, that I can't say anything, other than we favor the Bob Wood 6 with our set-ups.
I can't type as fast as those other guys.
I have to say, of all the cams I've read about or heard about, I've never heard of that one! I don't doubt it's great, since you know what you're talking about.

The package described in the first post - would both cams work just as well, with one a bit more high end and the other a bit more low end? Of everyone I've heard from, half say the S&S 585 is a great cam for the job, and half say it may be a bit too much of a higher-end cam. Just not sure if the package would work with the cam swap.

Just guessing here, but does this sound like the expected results?:

S&S 585 cam - torque peak at 3500 rpms with 95-100 lb/tq and a bit more HP
Wood 6 cam - torque peak at 3000 rpms with 100-105 lb/tq and a bit less HP

Last edited by PWRMAD; 02-01-2008 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Now, who would that be?
Carl at Lake Shore HD - heard good stuff about him from a few different sources. He's doing the heads, there's a seperate machine/engine shop there. Seems to know his ****, more so than just about anyone I've heard around the Chicago area, except maybe for Rob Schopf at Hal's HD (but it's too far and he charges big $$$$).
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