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Old 05-30-2007, 01:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Best low-end torque cam

Looking to add some to my motor a little at a time. Figure I will start with a cam change (geared) as well as add a Feuling pump and change out the inner cam bearings.

This is for a softail with a solo 250# rider. 50% around town, 50% fully loaded (saddlebags, t-bags, sometimes two-up) and going from sea level to 7000' on steep mountain highways. Rarely revs above 4500, usually shifted by 3500 rpm. Will probably punch out to 95" and maybe port heads someday.

I am looking for the lowest rpm I can get higher torque and still have a broad torque band. Must run pump fuel (sometimes 89 octane is all I find in the mountains) and run well at 90+ ambient temperature.

I have looked at the Andrews 26G and 37G and the Woods TW-6. Any suggestions?

Can the 37G be advanced to come on quicker like the 26G but still have the broader torque band? Does the Woods really pull from idle with an intake closing angle of 40 degrees? Are they Woods really noisy no matter what? With gear driven cams already I don't need yet more noise on top of it all.

I have a 2006, 88", SE/AC and V&H Pro Pipe with original torque baffle. Will be adding a PCIIIusb soon since stage 1 download works minimally, but is still too hot.

Thanks for any and all input guys!
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomshaw
Looking to add some to my motor a little at a time. Figure I will start with a cam change (geared) as well as add a Feuling pump and change out the inner cam bearings.

This is for a softail with a solo 250# rider. 50% around town, 50% fully loaded (saddlebags, t-bags, sometimes two-up) and going from sea level to 7000' on steep mountain highways. Rarely revs above 4500, usually shifted by 3500 rpm. Will probably punch out to 95" and maybe port heads someday.

I am looking for the lowest rpm I can get higher torque and still have a broad torque band. Must run pump fuel (sometimes 89 octane is all I find in the mountains) and run well at 90+ ambient temperature.

I have looked at the Andrews 26G and 37G and the Woods TW-6. Any suggestions?

Can the 37G be advanced to come on quicker like the 26G but still have the broader torque band? Does the Woods really pull from idle with an intake closing angle of 40 degrees? Are they Woods really noisy no matter what? With gear driven cams already I don't need yet more noise on top of it all.

I have a 2006, 88", SE/AC and V&H Pro Pipe with original torque baffle. Will be adding a PCIIIusb soon since stage 1 download works minimally, but is still too hot.

Thanks for any and all input guys!

If you are a 88 inch engine now and may go to a 95 later I would use the 26 andrews cam . It will work very well in the size and compression range you have now. We like to use the advance keys with the 88 inch. With a key you can use it in the 88 as well once you go to a 95 to save money. A 88 inch with key no other work done will make very close to 90/90. Bump to 95 inch and some mild head work you will gain more there. The 26 cam is a GREAT little cam.

The 37 with a key would work but your compression would be low to support the cam unless you removed the heads and used a thinner gasket. AS well the Woods 6 cam is a great cam but it close's later than the 37 thus it need even more compression to run in the "sweet" spot.

There are many many 88/95 inch engines out there with 26 andrews cams in them that have very happy owners.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I sencond Steve and just to add to it, the most importand part. Get it tuned when done......
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Steve, do you prefer the 2 degree or 4 degree advance key with the 26 cams. I have them in my 88" EG and are very happy with them, but lowering my TQ curve would not be a bad thing.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LittleBear
Steve, do you prefer the 2 degree or 4 degree advance key with the 26 cams. I have them in my 88" EG and are very happy with them, but lowering my TQ curve would not be a bad thing.
I can't speak for Steve but I wouldn't use any advance in the 26 cam.
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Old 05-30-2007, 01:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I can't speak for Steve but I wouldn't use any advance in the 26 cam.
Well right now I am not running one and I am happy. I hate going in there just because the stock exhaust headers are such a pain to deal with. That is over half the time of opening the cam chest.
Thanks for your comment DOC.
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Old 05-30-2007, 02:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well right now I am not running one and I am happy. I hate going in there just because the stock exhaust headers are such a pain to deal with. That is over half the time of opening the cam chest.
Thanks for your comment DOC.
Your more that welcome there Little Bear
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You should also consider the Andrews 21G. It has an intake closing of 30 degrees. Comes on earlier than the 26 and yes,falls off a little earlier too, but not much. Torque curve looks similar to 26, just a few hundred RPM lower on both ends.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The 21 is a good cam but really leave little room for upgrades, use the 26 and a key and you have cam that will do both.
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Old 05-30-2007, 05:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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have built a couple with the 26 and steves heads. customers are happy and the bikes pull hard till around 4500 rpm. no hot restart probs, and both gt around 40 mpg pulling 2 up.
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXCHOP
I sencond Steve and just to add to it, the most importand part. Get it tuned when done......
Yes, I have learned that much so far. Its not just plug and play to run as good as an engine can. Does me no good to do the work and leave any of it on the table. Supposedly there is a highly rated shop by me in Hayward (RC Cycle, Tuner Cairns)that I haven't heard anything but good about. I would probably have them dial it in. Know anyone else in the Bay Area?

The 26G with a key in the 88 huh? There is only a 4 key isn't there?

For down the road, what kind of compression would I need to bump up to to make the 37G or TW-6 work well? Would either of these be a large difference over the 26G for the riding I am talking about? If its worth it, I'll just wait longer, save more, and do head work and everything at once. Would a CR proper for the 37G or TW-6 still run at all on 89 octane?! And what would happen to milege with either of these two cams, not that I care. Just curious...

"The 37 with a key would work but your compression would be low to support the cam unless you removed the heads and used a thinner gasket. AS well the Woods 6 cam is a great cam but it close's later than the 37 thus it need even more compression to run in the "sweet" spot."

Is this in reference to straight mechanical CR or a corrected CR taking into account the sweep left ABDC when the intake valve closes?
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Old 05-30-2007, 07:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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According to Andrews, the 37 cam is made for stock to 9.5:1. on a stock comp 88, it could be a little short on bottom end, but still better than stock. an advance key should work very well. If you go to 95 later, keep the comp under 9.7:1, or you could have pinging problems.
The more altitude you have the lower the octane you need.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomshaw
Yes, I have learned that much so far. Its not just plug and play to run as good as an engine can. Does me no good to do the work and leave any of it on the table. Supposedly there is a highly rated shop by me in Hayward (RC Cycle, Tuner Cairns)that I haven't heard anything but good about. I would probably have them dial it in. Know anyone else in the Bay Area?
The 26G with a key in the 88 huh? There is only a 4 key isn't there?

For down the road, what kind of compression would I need to bump up to to make the 37G or TW-6 work well? Would either of these be a large difference over the 26G for the riding I am talking about? If its worth it, I'll just wait longer, save more, and do head work and everything at once. Would a CR proper for the 37G or TW-6 still run at all on 89 octane?! And what would happen to milege with either of these two cams, not that I care. Just curious..
"The 37 with a key would work but your compression would be low to support the cam unless you removed the heads and used a thinner gasket. AS well the Woods 6 cam is a great cam but it close's later than the 37 thus it need even more compression to run in the "sweet" spot."

Is this in reference to straight mechanical CR or a corrected CR taking into account the sweep left ABDC when the intake valve closes?
Good to see you realize the need for a tune...When its dialed in right, its worth every cent of the tune....

The 37 needs at least 9.5 to 9.8 to be optimum. It can be ran with more but guys here that tested it with over 10 said gains were very minimal. I do like your thinking on waiting and doing it all at once. Thats how i recomend it, unless theres a need to go in the engine for another reason. My 37g build runs like a dream on any gas i put into it. Tuning is the key to that. I happen to use 93 as its availble to me all the time. Mileage wise, look in my sig for my build...Did a 1000 mile trip this weekend and total average was about 43mpg's. I was happy to see that....Just my .02
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Talking Great info!

ROUTE66PAUL, How much louder is that SuperMeg now with the 95", the cam and the ported heads? I was thinking of getting one down line also. I heard one the other day with the small open end cap and it wasn't bad at all unless you twisted it. I haven't heard one yet with the closed end cap.

Hmmm...well TXCHOP, I just may do that. Wait and do it all at once that is. I am putting a pipe and a flash and new spindles, skis, etc. on my snowmobile soon since it is the off season. I can't do that and do my bike build right away. But it may behoove me to just keep saving and plotting and planning and take care of this build come winter. Not that it matters here. We ride all year round, rain or shine. Thats why I am doing my homework now and taking my time.
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Old 05-30-2007, 08:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I did my 95'' first and had Fulsac duals and recored muffs. They weren't overly loud, and quieter than most modified exhaust systems.

I installed the 2in1 before I had the dynotune it needed. It is much quieter, even with all the rings and a solid end peice. The more rings you take out, the quieter it gets and torquier it gets until about 12, then you can quiet it down more, but you lose power.
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Bi-polar and loving it!!
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95" w/ KB pistons (flattops)
HQ575 cams
Atwood's Road Warrior Heads
HPI bored throttle body
.030 head gasket
SuperTrapp Supermeg 2in1
"43" points cover
TRW rear mount
obligatory Baisley Spring

Take you a glass of water. Make it against the law. See how good the water tastes. When you can't have any at all.

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