What would you build

[DoomBuggy]

So I am curious, we have quite a few folks on the board who have presented themselves as being very knowledgeable about the 96" engine, what would you build, and why, with the following parameters / goals to guide you.

- Touring bike, looking for best performance in the low to mid power band 2k-3500rpm
- Cooler ride for both passenger and rider
- Reliability - but assume no warrenty
- Mileage - must stay in the 40s or better
- 96" displacement - no big bores engine stays in frame
- Head work and cams allowed
- $2,000 to $2,500 budget TOTAL including tuning

I believe that this represents the goals most "average" riders would have. The budget is probably at the top of what I would be able to spend over a winter. And of course this make one huge assumption, that a qualified tuner can be found in the area where each of us live.

Anyone................

[Bubba Neil]

I would say 103 with mild headwork keep the cr under 10:1, I prefer 2:1 exhaust.
I have 37H cams in my FLHR and a Supertrapp 2:1 along with a Ness BS air cleaner, SERT tuned with twinscan III/wego.
I get 42-43 mpg hwy, 38-39 city and it runs much cooler.
Have the 103 SE cast pistons that I'll probably go with this winter, along with some head work.

The stock cams are the real cause for the high heat in my opinion, that and the restrictive crossover pipe on the rear cyl.

Cams, either woods, andrews, SE255's are not bad either.

Stock bikes have high head & exhaust temps and timing set low to make EPA #'s, correct that and it makes a big difference.

I am not a professional by any means, just my opinion.

[bacon225]

Head work
Woods tw6-6 cam
Two into one exhaust
Performance A/C
I good dyno tune with the fuel management device of your choice.

[ceraaa42]

Are you doing your own work? Do you already have the stage I done? This makes a huge difference in what you get for your money.

This is the link to my Dyno report, best bang for the money in my opinion. If I were to do it again I would put in the compression releases to help with hot start.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/dr...et-baffle.html

Chris

[DoomBuggy]

Assume a stage one is done already so you have pipes and an A/C taken care of.

[ceraaa42]

Are you doing your own work?

If not, the labor could be around $800 to $1000 alone.

Chris

[DoomBuggy]

Sorry, ok lets assume I will be doing my own tear down / assembly but not porting the heads. Also would have to pay for tuning.

[claydbal]

"pipes are taken care of is a biggy. and which tuner do you have? yep, makes a difference.

[acbacb]

D&D FatCat 2-1
Doherty PowerPACC aircleaner
PCIII by FuelMoto
Andrews 26HG cams
Jagg Oil Cooler
Progressive 412's or 440's (1 inch lower than stock)
Saddlemen Explorer Seat (might get it w/ backrest)
Memphis Shades Windshield
Saddlebags of some sort (haven't decided yet)

-on a 2009 FXDC Dyna SuperGlide Custom

I've done lots of research on this forum, talking with others and many internet sites and this is my plan (subject to change of course).

[BVBOB]

Originally Posted by DoomBuggy

So I am curious, we have quite a few folks on the board who have presented themselves as being very knowledgeable about the 96" engine, what would you build, and why, with the following parameters / goals to guide you.

- Touring bike, looking for best performance in the low to mid power band 2k-3500rpm
- Cooler ride for both passenger and rider
- Reliability - but assume no warrenty
- Mileage - must stay in the 40s or better
- 96" displacement - no big bores engine stays in frame
- Head work and cams allowed
- $2,000 to $2,500 budget TOTAL including tuning

I believe that this represents the goals most "average" riders would have. The budget is probably at the top of what I would be able to spend over a winter. And of course this make one huge assumption, that a qualified tuner can be found in the area where each of us live.

Anyone................

Following your specs
Bigboyz headwork with cometic gaskets cc'd 10 to 1 comp
54H cams
Tuner (SEST or maybe new TTS)
If you consider a 2 into 1 pipe, Supertrapp supermeg
Ok so now for the reasons, porting of the heads and equalizing cc's will make for a smoother running motor and you will actually know what you are working with, I have used the 54 cams and have been very impressed with them, the specs of this cam will make power where you are looking for and at 10 to 1 comp will still start decent. The tuning devices I listed will give you full control over the tune and allow you the means for a great tune. The pipe I listed because they can be tuned with the discs/caps on the dyno and the configuration of the pipe keeps the heat away from the riders, love my Fatcats but lets face it, the rear pipe sticks out way too far. If you dont like the 2 into 1 look, a set of Rush slip ons may be in order, they make great power also, I dyno'd a 103 with this build that made 109 tq with a nice curve with stock headpipes and rush slip ons. As for cost, this should easily keep you well under budget and get you a nice reliable boost where you need it most. One more thing, I see no reason you cant stay close to budget and have the extra cubes by going to a 103, the motor does not come out for this anyway and the labor amounts to at the most another hour. As for the mileage, I see no reason you cannot be at the 40 mark or better but it will depend greatly on you right hand.

[route66paul]

By the time you buy the pistons to bump up the compression, you might as well go big, the pistons are cheaper, anyway and the boring is not that expensive. After changing intake and exhaust for full flow, the heads should be done as well as a cam designed for the what you intend to the engine. i do not think that it is wise to mill the heads to get higher comp on the 96" bore because:
1. you will have to take too much off the heads to run the old pistons (this causes further problems with intake fitment and pushrods)
2. Because the heads will then be only ok for that build, the comp will be too high to go to a big bore.

Doing any internal changes or replacements without designing the build will not get you much, the mods all have to work together. you really need a dyno after you do much here, and they are expensive enough that you really want to have the whole thing done at once.

[DoomBuggy]

Originally Posted by claydbal

"pipes are taken care of is a biggy. and which tuner do you have? yep, makes a difference.

Tuner would be part of the build, I am partial to reprograming the stock ECM as opposed to puting an inline device, but again I want a full package.

Pipes are a hard one for me. I know that my specs cry out for a 2-1 to help keep the power band in the lower RPM range, but darn it, a dresser needs to have pipes on both sides, lol.

[DoomBuggy]

Ok this is starting to come together. BVBOB has the right idea in laying out the why of his choices.

A couple of more questions.

1) Cam choices - the key to keeping the heat low is to have some overlap, however, too much overlap will kill a bit of the low end. How much overlap, duration, and lift are we looking at to keep the torque band low.

2) Compression ratio - I know compression is cheap horsepower, but it tend to come at the price of octane requirements, smoothness, durability, and emmissions. Does everyone agree that 10:1 is a reasonable compromise for either a 96" or 103". Also how far can we mill the heads before we need to worry about pushrod geometery or is that a non-issue with the 96"? Also want to make sure 91 octane with 10% ethonal will work well as some places that is all we can get and this is a touring bike.

3) I was not thinking of pulling the jugs when I started this, I really was thinking to keep the price "reasonable", only the heads would come off. This ties back into #2, but do we really need to change out pistons to meet the design goals?

4) Talking about touring, I took a little 3 hour run this morning and the Screaming Eagle 65115's are just too loud. 1/3 or the run was at 85mph on a superslab, the rest was back roads on the way home averaging about 60 mph. When looking at the pipes what are the quieter options.

Thanks all, this should be constructive and a great education for all of us on the board.

Best regards,
Harry

[bowtech40]

BVBOB has the right idea, and I respect his opinion. He has messed around with quite a few builds, and now with the dyno can back up his efforts. The tw6-6 seems like another logical choice to throw in the mix.
I also agree that the fatcat sticks out way to far, and I think it contributes to the extra heat I feel in traffic, and that the wife complains about. Looking at the 09 exhaust, you can even see that the MOCO has routed it completely different with the curve forward away from the rider. I believe they did this to combat the heat also.

[BVBOB]

Originally Posted by DoomBuggy

Ok this is starting to come together. BVBOB has the right idea in laying out the why of his choices.

A couple of more questions.

1) Cam choices - the key to keeping the heat low is to have some overlap, however, too much overlap will kill a bit of the low end. How much overlap, duration, and lift are we looking at to keep the torque band low.

2) Compression ratio - I know compression is cheap horsepower, but it tend to come at the price of octane requirements, smoothness, durability, and emmissions. Does everyone agree that 10:1 is a reasonable compromise for either a 96" or 103". Also how far can we mill the heads before we need to worry about pushrod geometery or is that a non-issue with the 96"? Also want to make sure 91 octane with 10% ethonal will work well as some places that is all we can get and this is a touring bike.

3) I was not thinking of pulling the jugs when I started this, I really was thinking to keep the price "reasonable", only the heads would come off. This ties back into #2, but do we really need to change out pistons to meet the design goals?

4) Talking about touring, I took a little 3 hour run this morning and the Screaming Eagle 65115's are just too loud. 1/3 or the run was at 85mph on a superslab, the rest was back roads on the way home averaging about 60 mph. When looking at the pipes what are the quieter options.

Thanks all, this should be constructive and a great education for all of us on the board.

Best regards,
Harry

1) I would keep my duration at 240 or less, intake closing around the 40 mark, (hmm, woods 6 huh)
2)As for compression, I would worry more about your final ccp than the compression, for an example, the Andrews 54 cams would give you about 180ccp(no need for comp releases) if you used a cometic 30 and cut your heads down to 83 cc's, your heads will likley be around that 85 cc mark to start with but they can be more, getting to 83 cc's if you start at 85 would take about a 15 thousands cut, add that to the 15 thousands thinner gasket and you can run an SE -30 perfect fit pushrod, or adjustables, but you are concerned with reliability and the perfect fits have pretty much bulletproof, (no chance of loosening up) 3)See no reason to change out pistons, at this configuration you will have no valvetrain geometry issues or intake fitment problems.

4) Once again the rush slip-ons 1 3/4 left 2 inch right side baffles are not obnoxiously loud at all.

One more thing, if you were to go this route but use a 103 BigBore kit, you would be able to retain use of the stock pushrods by not having to do more than a cleanup cut of the heads, this savings will pay for a good percentage of the BB kit.