Need some advice on cooling. : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

Injector · 07-14-2008, 07:01 PM

Hi all.
Great Forum.
Could use some help with an 08 nightrain I recently purchased.
Usually research before buying anything but bought this on a whim only to find out about heat problems.
Currently using xied's but only help a little on the heat.

Getting 350 to 360 on cylinder heads and 240 to 250 in oil tank with laser temp gun.
Have not done 1000 mile oil change yet so synthetic may help a little if not in there already.

My question is would a set of vance hines shortshots (black) and better breather along with PCIII bring temps down enuf to make me happy ? say 300 cylinder and 200 to 210 on oil ? or would I be wasting money with the exeption of the sound ?

Bike seems to run really great and cool goin down the road but this is my first harley...Are the temps I'm lookin for even possible on a 96 ?

Pls forgive my newbness

smitty901 · 07-14-2008, 09:00 PM

Here my 2 bucks worth
HD and all air cooled engines run hot. Hotter now due to EPA.
Thats ok they can handel it.
Now if you want to do something to cool it down a bit.
You did the Xied's and found the truth they help but it is not much.
I will save you the trouable on Parade fans.. they suck don't work and don't last.
100% true SNY engine oil is the best first step you can make.
Jagg oil cooler the 10 row increases oil about 6 oz and will help lower temps when moving and even some when sitting.
Doing a stage one will help a little put going the PC111 route is going to end up costing you $$$$ and more $$ for dyno time. If you want the extra kick you can get with a PC111 dynoed out correctly by all means throw down the cash and enjoy. But do not BS your self into beleaveing it going to cool it down that much.
If you want the bike to sound better if you want it to be a bit stronger and
you are ready to part with some cash. Do a good stage 1, right with the pipes you like. go with a TFI not the PC111. Little home work will help you understand why. Look into a jagg oil cooler the 10 row offers about 40% more cooling than a 6 row. You can install it your self.
If your not ready yet then just ride it the bike will not melt down or fall apart because you did not do a stage 1 to it.
You have the Xieds allready if you want better sound put some nice slipp ons on it and leave the AC alone you do not need any fuel mods for just pipes. The pipes along with the Xieds it should run pretty good and sound great.
I currenty own a 96 fatboy moded heavy and a Stock 07 Road Glide
The Rg has 17,500 mile on it already and runs just fine stock. The 96 FB has 46,000 miles on it and runs just fine moded out.
Mod it because you want to not because you have too.
Enjoy the ride.

Disclaimed befor all the PC111 fans try to kill me.
PC111 is great and if someone was paying me to race I would have it right away.
I have just seen the TFI works very well for what most need at a better price and a lot less messing around.

Pikeslayer · 07-14-2008, 09:21 PM

Buy a PCIII, run a canned map that matches your exhaust. You're done.

Injector · 07-14-2008, 09:41 PM

I figure around a 1000 or less for everything I mentioned which can all be installed by me.
Very computer savy..have built many gaming and home computers..and have had a few hot rods.
Would one of the canned maps not work all that good ? Or is Dyno a must.
Not lookin for power as much as cooling.
Also not interested in harley touchin it if they are not gonna richen it up.
How much cooler can I get then what I got for that kinda money ?

Injector · 07-14-2008, 09:45 PM

Thx Pike guess that answers my canned question.

Didn't see you posted.

Injector · 07-14-2008, 09:50 PM

Thx Smitty startin research on TFI

04GLIDE · 07-15-2008, 12:08 AM

It's going to run hot right now due to it's not broke in. A dyno tune with a SERT or PC will cool it down along with some good Syn oil. Choose your tuner wisely. Bigger air cleaner and exhaust always helps.
BTW the temps you are seeing are normal.

claydbal · 07-15-2008, 08:01 AM

injector, after the truth hits and you discover that cam swap is the only true way to cool that thing off, you will need the ability to tune.

even if you wait to do the cam swap, you still need a tuner, you will get ping when you open the breather and pipes.

so------you need a tuning device. PC3, thunder-max, SERT , direct-link, or master-tune can tune, the rest are a waste of money that could have been used towards purchase of one of above.

BTW, a good set of slip ons will save money and have better overall performance than the short shots. not to mention not having to tune around the dead bottom end and the decel popping.

softailguy · 07-15-2008, 12:07 PM

If you decide to go with the PCIII I'd suggest you get it dynotuned as it did make a difference for me. Canned map works but tuned works better...

Cams will help with the heat and also make it run like a Harley should...

fyi, fwiw, hth, ymmv, etc...

Injector · 07-15-2008, 12:28 PM

clay and softail thx.
cam was on my mind as well...damn the warranty.
any idea what kinda money ? I would rather leave that job to someone else.
and should I break it in more first ?

softailguy · 07-15-2008, 01:41 PM

I don't recall total cost but I'd guess it was around 2 grand. I did Intake, Exhaust & a sert download first. Wasn't happy with results so did Cams, PCIII & Dynotune shortly thereafter and knew right away that I finally had it where I wanted it...

I did this at between 3 and 4 thousand miles on the clock.

I'm at 13,000 now and have no regrets except that I would have done this all at one time and could have skipped the $200 for the sert download.

I'd suggest you log some more break in miles while you do some research and decide exactly what you want. There are lots of choices and even more opinions...

DoomBuggy · 07-15-2008, 02:27 PM

I understand why one would want to change cams, the stock EPA cam has no overlap and no chance for cooling. But I know nothing about Harley cams for the twin cam engines. I have two questions. The 96" engine is all I will ever need for cubes, so for a person that will leave the displacement stock, but will add better breathing, what is a good cam and why. Second question, I understand that the chain tensioners in these motors are a weak spot. Does anyone make a set of geared cams and if so what are the plus and minuses of a gear drive set.

Many, many thanks for all the combined knowledge here,
Harry

PS, I will no doubt do head work later in life, but not this eyar.

smitty901 · 07-15-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Injector

Thx Smitty startin research on TFI

Cheating a little bit heres some of your home done for you.
I am not aginst PC111 just have seen they are over kill and a lot of problems for many.
http://www.hdtalking.com/diagnostics...mparisons.html

GUIDOLICIOUS · 07-16-2008, 05:48 PM

Good info Smitty, Sort of heips put it into perspective

grandpa Tom · 07-29-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Injector

Hi all.
Great Forum.
Could use some help with an 08 nightrain I recently purchased.
Usually research before buying anything but bought this on a whim only to find out about heat problems.
Currently using xied's but only help a little on the heat.

Getting 350 to 360 on cylinder heads and 240 to 250 in oil tank with laser temp gun.
Have not done 1000 mile oil change yet so synthetic may help a little if not in there already.

My question is would a set of vance hines shortshots (black) and better breather along with PCIII bring temps down enuf to make me happy ? say 300 cylinder and 200 to 210 on oil ? or would I be wasting money with the exeption of the sound ?

Bike seems to run really great and cool goin down the road but this is my first harley...Are the temps I'm lookin for even possible on a 96 ?

Pls forgive my newbness

Injector: ok I am not HD tech but a retired GM 37 yr Machine repairman.
The advice you have been given in above feed backs is on the spot. I have a 07 FLSTC that at the 1K service I did the stage 1 with rush slip ons and dyno with SERT to help temp.
The first K I didnt have any temp reading, but at the 1K service with the stage 1 with syn3 in all 3 I installed an oil tank temp
gauge. The average was 225 with low of 210 to high of 245 in stop light traffic..
Now after 12K on bike the average is around 215 or lower so I know that more miles will help lower temp.
Even in stop light traffic the temp goes to 230 or so..
So the stage 1 did help cool, now our harley dealer suggested that I put syn3 in engine at the 10k service but he said now they are putting formual+ in the other two holes and I think the trans is shifting better and can not tell any diff in the primary..But will stay with the oils I have now till warrenty is up then maybe Mobil V twin In engine and formula+in primary with mobil or spectrum in tranny when I change it myself.
.