Has the MoCo resolved its crankshaft issues?

[george248]

Originally Posted by AirGlider

What I don't understand is why doesn't the MoCo just weld the cranks prior to assembly. They should be able to keep tolerances within .001 or better. If the rod races wear, then just replace the unit. It would solve alot of the problems with a small amount of extra effort.

AG

Same reason they went with the cheaper/weaker crank bearing in 03... to please the bean counters. Screw the customer... shame that they are only saving a few bucks per unit... I know I would gladly have paid the difference.

[blues821]

with out trying to sound like an ass , how many of you guys actually own 07's that the cranks have failed ..again it im not trying to step on toes but ....they raised the runout spec because the crank is now measured in the case not on a trueing stand ... this new spec also takes into acount the slop if you will in the roller bearings...the crank used to be measured on a stand at the bearing surface now its measured on the end of the pinion shaft in the cases so .003 or less is not impossible but unlikely ... now that being said if the crank shaft has scissored thats a whole diff. issue . i have spoken to 2 different engine builders and was told by them that the bikes that are haveing the issues have them pretty much from the start and as long as the bike is used as it was intened that there should'nt be a problem i own a 07 rkc and im just as concerned as you all lets try to find some hard facts and not internet hipe and speculation keith

[emxgarcia]

So far so good here...

[dynadad]

Originally Posted by blues821

with out trying to sound like an ass , how many of you guys actually own 07's that the cranks have failed ..again it im not trying to step on toes but ....they raised the runout spec because the crank is now measured in the case not on a trueing stand ... this new spec also takes into acount the slop if you will in the roller bearings...the crank used to be measured on a stand at the bearing surface now its measured on the end of the pinion shaft in the cases so .003 or less is not impossible but unlikely ... now that being said if the crank shaft has scissored thats a whole diff. issue . i have spoken to 2 different engine builders and was told by them that the bikes that are haveing the issues have them pretty much from the start and as long as the bike is used as it was intened that there should'nt be a problem i own a 07 rkc and im just as concerned as you all lets try to find some hard facts and not internet hipe and speculation keith

Well at last after all the griping .Someone with a valid point. Cheers to you.

[pittguy]

You can measure it all you want but the oil pump isnt going to like .003" or greater runout very long,whether the crank actually slipped or not. So many come to a site link this and post their problems but wont take the time to post on the NHTSA link which would show just how many failures there has been,polls like this wouldnt be needed,it doesnt matter if it was corrected by warrantys or not.It would show a weakness to the common owner and probably force the MoCo to address the issue. If you believe the MoCo isnt aware of this you are wrong.Just look at what they have done to address this the past few yrs.IDS is a dampener,FBW will end the jack rabbit starts,the fuel/timing maps have been doctored,an improved comp is to be released in sept,the crank counter bore depth has been lessened and lastly they upped their runout specs for their good,not yours.

[blues821]

Originally Posted by pittguy

You can measure it all you want but the oil pump isnt going to like .003" or greater runout very long,whether the crank actually slipped or not. So many come to a site link this and post their problems but wont take the time to post on the NHTSA link which would show just how many failures there has been,polls like this wouldnt be needed,it doesnt matter if it was corrected by warrantys or not.It would show a weakness to the common owner and probably force the MoCo to address the issue. If you believe the MoCo isnt aware of this you are wrong.Just look at what they have done to address this the past few yrs.IDS is a dampener,FBW will end the jack rabbit starts,the fuel/timing maps have been doctored,an improved comp is to be released in sept,the crank counter bore depth has been lessened and lastly they upped their runout specs for their good,not yours.

WHAT ITS THE NHTSA SIGHT.. I'M NOT SAYING THIS PROBLEM DOESNT EXIST IM JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT HOW BIG IT IS KEITH

[pittguy]

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/ Many owners will complain about thngs dealers say is normal and post here such as heat issues,odd noises etc. But dont post when they had runout problems which many were fixed under warranty early on. Any manufacture has to answer these complaints if they become a pattern. This site cost nothing other than your time. It helps these companys build better,stay out of court fighting lemon laws,maybe helps keep a future or new buyer.But most of all maybe save someones life!

[hdchris]

No there is no Timken bearings for '09 but I will tell you waht they did do!

Left side flywheel – Shallower counter bore

Change to ALL Flywheels
END PLAY SPECIFICATION
.003” - .013”Starting in 09MY the flywheel will be able to
use either the long or short bolt. Long bolts will
be used up in production before the short bolt
becomes common for both. New flywheels will
retrofit.

There you have it, The Great fix.....Increased Runout that should fix it!

Did they increase end play or runout???

I too think this is getting blown out of proportion. I'm not saying there are no problems and not defending Harley. Just trying to figure out how big the problem is. I have a 3rd phase Fatboy ordered.

Does anyone know what the RUNOUT spec is for 2009? Thanks.

[claydbal]

Originally Posted by blues821

WHAT ITS THE NHTSA SIGHT.. I'M NOT SAYING THIS PROBLEM DOESNT EXIST IM JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT HOW BIG IT IS KEITH

read pittguys post above. if the runout can wear the oil pump in a few thousand miles, and oil pump failure can destroy your engine and kill you------------how big a problem would you say it is?

[hdchris]

read pittguys post above. if the runout can wear the oil pump in a few thousand miles, and oil pump failure can destroy your engine and kill you------------how big a problem would you say it is?

By how big of a problem I mean to say, how many TC96 engines actually have oil pump failure caused by excessive runout. I do not believe a bad oil pump would kill me. I suppose there are some riders out there that could be killed by this type of failure.

I don't see many posts from people who actually had failure. Mostly people ranting about MoCo increasing endplay spec. and somehow this is causing runout issues.

If someone knows, or knows where I can find the RUNOUT specs for 2008 and 2009 TC96 engines, PLEASE let me know. I guess I could call the HD service department to see if they have 2009 service manuals yet.

Thanks, Chris

[mungo]

Originally Posted by hdchris

If someone knows, or knows where I can find the RUNOUT specs for 2008 and 2009 TC96 engines, PLEASE let me know. I guess I could call the HD service department to see if they have 2009 service manuals yet.

Thanks, Chris

This what you're looking for?

2009 Touring Service Manual Table 3-11
Runout (shaft in case) 0.000-0.010in
Runout (shaft in truing stand) 0.000-0.004in
End play 0.003-0.013in

[hdchris]

This what you're looking for?

Yes, thank you.

[dynadad]

Originally Posted by claydbal

read pittguys post above. if the runout can wear the oil pump in a few thousand miles, and oil pump failure can destroy your engine and kill you------------how big a problem would you say it is?

Someone needs to take a reality check....Cranks are killing people I AM LMAO BIG TIME

[Coolmaker]

Originally Posted by claydbal

read pittguys post above. if the runout can wear the oil pump in a few thousand miles, and oil pump failure can destroy your engine and kill you------------how big a problem would you say it is?

Know you are a Quality builder, but how many actually have a Problem?

[DAMADMAN]

Harley has gone to ****... mine was at .0045 at the end of the pinion shaft, 6000 miles. I just saw an 06 at the wrench getting a whole new lower end. crank scissored and wiped everything out. You would think for a 16,000 dollar bike youd get something a little more.