Nightrider - Page 4 : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

johNTO · 05-16-2008, 04:03 PM

kslg, thanks for the info.
From what I've read Doherty makes a primo A/C kit and like you implied, something worthy of hanging on the wall as an art piece. Their research, design, and craftsmanship is second to none.
I generally want an A/C kit that will Perform and maintain the stock look and I think the Doherty system is winning the race right now. I would be satisfied if the XiED's could handle the extra load (of air) without having to go with a SERT or similar.
I guess there's only one way to find out.....

hozeheads · 05-17-2008, 07:39 AM

So If I understand you all correctly, I would assume that any air cleaner kit, exhaust, and fuel management(like fuel pak) will work "WITH" the IED and XIED o2 sensors because the new o2 sensors work from idle and slow moving, and fuel management systems are from slow moving to floored. Does this sound correct or am I all mixed up?

kslg · 05-17-2008, 08:28 AM

Slow moving to floored is when the ECU changes from closed loop to open loop. Open loop does not use the O2 sensors. The IED's will work in all closed loop operation; from idle up to around 4,000 rpm and 50-60% throttle (approx), which would be 90% of the time you ride.

When you change pipes/intake, the ECU constantly measures and adds fuel when needed to make sure the engine is running within prescribed parameters (14.7 air fuel ratio, mod'ed to 14.2 or 13.8 w/IED's)

When the system changes to open loop (getting on it) it goes rich enough to handle a standard stage one kit (intake/exhaust) without any further fuel adjustment.

You would really only need a fueler like SERT or a Powercommander if you are doing further mods like cams etc. One of the main reasons to add SERT or the like is to be able to change timing which is essential when changing a cam.

Previous to 2007, you always needed a download or a fueler because the ECU had no way to adjust fuel.

johNTO · 05-18-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hozeheads

So If I understand you all correctly, I would assume that any air cleaner kit, exhaust, and fuel management(like fuel pak) will work "WITH" the IED and XIED o2 sensors because the new o2 sensors work from idle and slow moving, and fuel management systems are from slow moving to floored. Does this sound correct or am I all mixed up?

Just adding my $.02....
From what I understand if you're just installing an upgraded aftermarket A/C and slightly freer flowing pipes you don't really need an aftermarket fuel management system.
Like kslg said, the ECM can handle the extra load (I read somewhere that the ECM can handle an increase of up to 11% horsepower). If you really want to spend the money on a fuel mgmt system and the iED/XiED's, set up your bike first with the fuel mgmt system then install the iED/XiED's.

hozeheads · 05-19-2008, 05:52 AM

I have a 07 nightrain. I was told from day 1 that changing air cleaner & pipes that I need a fuel system to stop the popping. And it worked, the fuel pak was easy. Its just 10 pounds of crap under the seat. I would love to take out the fuel pak and put in the IED'S or XIED's as long as I dont hurt the engine in any way. I just want to ride. If I wanted to go fast I would have bought a jap bike.

johNTO · 05-19-2008, 11:54 AM

hozeheads, since you already added a fuel pack installing the iED/XiED's can't hurt anything. The wires will actually take care of things when in closed loop(where most of us ride our bikes). Once the wires are installed try disconnecting the fuel pack and see if there's a difference. You might have a fuel pack for sale....
At around $100.00 you can't go wrong trying out the iED/XiED's.

kslg · 05-19-2008, 12:44 PM

Personally, I wouldn't add 2 devices to do the same job.

I would find the one that works best for your set up and use it alone. I can't see 2 fuelers being a good thing long term.

ss-serenity · 05-19-2008, 08:51 PM

I had 1,100 miles on my 08 Ultra before installing the XiEDs. In those first miles sometimes the motor got hot enough to make me wonder if my right leg was going to blister from the heat. I have a stock motor with stock exhaust.

I just returned from a 1,400 mile trip into Arkansas and the heat problem was MUCH better. Riding 2 up the whole time, I only had one or two times that things got hot enough that I even noticed. Even then, it wasn't near as hot as before. I noticed the most heat while cruising the interstate at a steady 75 mph.

My gas mileage actually increased. I was getting about 37 before the XiEDs and I consistently got 40 on the Arkansas trip.

I'm a happy customer. It's nice to find a product that works well at a reasonable price. Steve (at Nightrider) is also great to deal with.

Sparrow · 05-21-2008, 03:47 PM

I bought a pair of the XIED's. Just got them today.

However, the instructions don't go so well with my '08 Heritage Classic.

The O2 sensor wires are routed to where I can't follow them without taking components off the bike. I don't have the service manual yet so I don't want to start taking it apart without one.

Anyway the back o2 wire runs up under the oil tank, and I think maybe up under the battery. Taking the seat off didn't help me find it.

The front one runs behind the voltage regulator, and although that's not a big deal to take that off, I plan to wait till I can change both of them at the same time.

I guess I'll run by the stealer and buy the book.

johNTO · 05-21-2008, 06:43 PM

Sparrow, I'm not familiar with your bike's setup but if you can get at the delphi connectors, it just a simple disconnect and plug in the XiED's.
Then feed the additional lengths of wire into a void area and tie-wrap them. Just be careful not to bend the middle section(hard plastic) of the XiED's.
I think you'll be very happy with the performance of the wires!

Sparrow · 05-21-2008, 07:28 PM

Well, right now that's the problem. I can't locate the connectors, the rear one is either behind the oil tank or under the battery compartment. The fuse box is behind the battery, and I've never taken that stuff off before. I'd rather have some pictures rather than just dive in. I'll get a service manual tomorrow if they have one.

I'm gonna have to take some of that off to find out where the wire runs. The front one I figure is right behind the voltage regulator, so it shouldn't be a problem--I hope.

Sparrow · 05-25-2008, 06:40 PM

Well, I got the Xied's installed. Didn't get to ride it till today and that was between the rain showers.

It does run better. Sounds better, feels better.
Not fantastically better, but enough to be able to tell a difference.
I didn't check engine temps.
For the price, I'm very satisfied with them.

johNTO · 05-26-2008, 04:49 PM

Sparrow, good to know you finally got your XiED's on!
You may think the change in your bike's performance is minor but if you take your XiED's off after a few hundred miles I'm sure will notice a huge difference (especially in the heat of the summer).

Sparrow · 05-26-2008, 06:07 PM

In case anybody else does this, on my 08 Heritage the front connector is in a plastic box just above the voltage regulator.

The rear one is up under the oil tank, and you'll have one heck of a time trying to get that one installed. You can't get two sets of fingers in there at the same time, so you have pull off a feat of magic to connect the IED to the connector under the tank with one hand.

airmann6 · 05-27-2008, 03:30 PM

Speaking with Service Mgr. about a 103 download I mentioned I had the Niterider IED wires. He asked if I wanted a free dyno because he was curious about them working . He was amazed to find a AFR of 13.8 since the HD load only gets around 14.6 . He rode my 08 FLHX and said it runs as good or better as any bike with download and hes a believer . Good info for potential IED buyers .