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Old 07-03-2012, 03:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Andrews 48h review

I now have some miles on my bike after replacing my stock cams with Andrews 48h's and thought I would give a little feedback for those considering doing the same thing...

Back in May I inquired about the process of doing the job and getting quotes. I decided to do the job myself and found it to be an easy task. Took me a full day from tear down to being all put together. The one sticking point on a Fatboy, was the rear exhaust install. It is very hard to get a nut on the stud and get it tightened down. Nevertheless, it is done!

Previous Thread: http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/tw...rade-cost.html

So how does it run? Well I'm a cautions person and try to double check everything three times. Upon firing up the bike and adjusting my Map with the Zippers Thundermax, I could hear a difference in the sound of the motor. I can't put a description on it EFI 96's sound different then the 88's and older bikes, but it did sound different.

I put my first 100 miles on without exceeding 3500 RPM's. When riding I immediately heard a difference in the exhaust and intake between 2500 - 2800 RPMs. This made me think my SE Push rods weren't extended enough. The directions call for 2.5 turns so I added an extra .5 turns to each rod. This is a full 3 turns like the S&S quickie rods. The sound persisted so I called it good as the bike was running just fine.

After the first 100 miles, I started opening it up. My fatboy has both a fairing and extended hard bags so it is heavy and less aerodynamic as it is a full bagger. I was riding with a few other guys and found it easy to pull away from them both at take off as well as at cursing speeds.

I have a thundermax with Auto-Tune so there are no Dyno charts for my bike. I work and tweak my maps as I need and let the computer do the rest. The bike runs very good, I assume it could be better, but it's an all around nice ride.

With that said, when I rip the throttle, I do not feel like I am thrown back in the saddle. The bike moves along and revs good, but I'm not burning any rubber. I do need a little adjustment of my clutch as I feel it slip a bit. I'll get the clutch adjustment, stiffer spring, new clutch this week or next.

When on the road, 1st gear revs to 3300 and 20 mph, 2nd reeves to 3300 and 38-42 mpg, 3rd I start feeling the TQ and moves up to 50mph at 3500, 4th gear can move up to 60mph @ 3800rpm while 5th really pulls all the way to 75mph at 4000rpm followed by 6th gear pulling 80+mpg at 3200 rpm...

That is staying on the throttle, it all happens in just a short time. When moving I just hold on and keep it pointed straight. When on the interstate in either 5th or 6th gear, the bike can easily walk away from cars when at the correct speed without lugging the motor.

I feel with each twist of the throttle, the bike has more then I'm willing to ask from it. I'm no where near my rev limit and shift because the D&D fat cats are screaming in my ears. I can confirm that I do feel major torque when going through 3rd, 4th and 5th gears, it is pulling like a Mack Truck.

The bikes runs very smooth, with the new Zippers map, idles around 920 rpm. My temps on the road go down the faster I move, but average around 255* @ 70mpg on a 100* day; Oil temp is 232*.

I'm pleased with this upgrade. The bike is effortless at any speed. The stock cams would move along, but I did feel I had to twist the throttle more, now I don't believe I get over 1/2 throttle except on extreme ranges..

I don't know if this will help anyone, but I can confirm there are some great resources for those looking at doing a cam swap on your 96" motor. It is very easy and straight forward when you have the right tools and some time to get it done.

Bike Specs:

2007 Fatboy
Stock 96"
Big Sucker
D&D Fatcat
Zipper Thundermax
Andrews 48H cams
SE Tapered adjustable pushrods

Thanks for all the help V-Twin Forum!

Jesse
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yea I am happy, however this was to help others who may want to know about the Andrews 48h. It's a solid bolt in cam with our a lot of info on the net. There might be something better, but this is a good option.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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That's a very accurate write up. Too often people hop on here and post their after cam results saying they almost fell off their seat etc when they twist the throttle and I think that sets unrealistic expectations.

I did the 48H as my first cam change on my 96" Fat bob. I didn't know what to expect and it took a lot of time with the TTS to get them fine tuned, but my experience is about the same as yours. I don't have a tachometer so I don't know what RPM's I'm at, but generally I find myself going higher MPH in each gear without the engine sounding like it's working that hard. Whereas before I'd shift to 6th as approaching 70MPH I find myself cruising in 5th at 70. This holds true for the other gears as well. 3rd-5th is where it really pulls.

The torque is there when you need it, but when just going along the bike feels about the same except as mentioned you can take each gear a little higher without taxing the engine. I also love the lope these cams give at idle.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Matt do you still run the 48's? I'm thinking of pulling them out and replacing them with the 54's. The more I ride the bike, the more I'm disappointed in the overall feel of the bike. As restricted as it was, the stock seemed to pull more although I know that isn't true, it was just the feeling of the restriction placed on the motor through the weak cam.

My 48's have less then 500 miles on them and think I'll pull them within the next month for something else..

After talking to a custom motor builder, I should have gone with the 54's from the start... Oh well, live and learn!
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseR View Post
Matt do you still run the 48's? I'm thinking of pulling them out and replacing them with the 54's. The more I ride the bike, the more I'm disappointed in the overall feel of the bike. As restricted as it was, the stock seemed to pull more although I know that isn't true, it was just the feeling of the restriction placed on the motor through the weak cam.

My 48's have less then 500 miles on them and think I'll pull them within the next month for something else..

After talking to a custom motor builder, I should have gone with the 54's from the start... Oh well, live and learn!
Jesse,

Yes I do. For me I don't see another cam out there that I would want. .if you look at the dyno charts from GMR Performance, they were able to get almost a table top like torque curve starting low and carrying all the way up to 5k RPM. .I believe in a 96" with a D&D Fatcat and TTS tuner they made around 102tq somewhere in that range.

If you're running a stock motor I don't think the 48H can be beat from all the dyno charts I've seen. As to the 'feeling' not being there. .it could be the tune, it could be in your head? Riding around town the bike feels the same. When I want to gun it, it definitely has some more power. If you want more than that. .maybe you should leave it be for a year or more and start looking into other options such as porting the heads, bigger engine etc. .

Personally I want to get the most out of the 96" that I can. If the motor ever dies then I'll look into all the 103, 107, 110, 120" builds. I suspect my exhaust isn't helping me out either (V&H Competition Series with a quiet baffle installed to try to mitigate the loss in low end 2800RPM torque it's known for) but am happy with its sound/looks/weight etc so I'll leave it alone. I think maybe the best thing you can do is give it some time, maybe go get it dyno'ed to see if somethings off. .cheaper and easier than a new cam.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseR View Post
My 48's have less then 500 miles on them and think I'll pull them within the next month for something else..

After talking to a custom motor builder, I should have gone with the 54's from the start... Oh well, live and learn!
I don't think you will be happy with the 54 unless you are looking for less on the low and mid range and more on the upper mid range and top end. The 48 intake closes at 29* and the 54 intake closes at 42*. You are going to give up CCP/compression and lost compression = lost torque.

If you haven't had the engine tuned on a dyno, you have not tapped the full potential of the 48; the Thundermax and your tweaking are leaving untapped performance in the driveway. Given the situation, optimizing the performance of the 48s would seem to make more sense than pulling them before you experience 100% of what the 48 can deliver.

Remember, it's just a cam only upgrade and you can only expect so much, with the 48 or any other cam. I would be willing to bet that if you post on any H-D forum and ask what the best "bolt in" cam for an otherwise stock 96"; the overwhelming response will be the Andrews 48; you have the right cam for the application. If you are hungry for more performance, open up your wallet and start thinking 103"/107", head work and longer cams.

Your ride, you get to decide; JMHO.
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Old 07-29-2012, 12:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the comments guys... I do like the way the bike runs, and agree that for all the work replacing the 48's would still leave me wanting. I've just been riding around and can't complain, but also I don't want to drop 4 grand on an motor overhall... I'll keep what I have.

As for a tuner, several motor builders have all told me there is no one in the Tulsa area who truly knows what they are doing. With that, they also don't know the Thundermax system. Most around here either are the SERT or the Power commander tuners.

A trusted race motor builder love the Tmax, but says I'm in for a drive to OKC at least and maybe Dallas..

I'm now searching for tuning tips.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Jes,

what map?

I have 26H's in my '07 FXSTC with 103" SE BB

Timing changes make a BIG difference

raise all , in timing RPM page, 1700 to 3500 1 block at a time and see if it changes the pull power.

.slk file is not up-loadable????
pm me with Email and I'll send my latest map.

Al
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I JUST got my 48H's in the mail today. They'll go in this September. Along with Smith Brothers push rods and Johnson Hy-Lift tappets. These tappets are supposed to SIGNIFICANTLY lessen the noise from under the fuel tank! :-). I'll post a review of my own when I finally get them installed.

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Old 08-20-2012, 05:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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For what it worth, I've been running this cam sense they pretty much cam out, August 2010, and they are a very decent cam for a other wise very stock motor. It pulls good down low and will run out the back door. I've hit the rev limiter more than once or twice, 6200. I cruise around on the highway at 75-80 and the rpms are roughly 2800-3000. That seems to be where the cams are the happiest and with a quick flick of the throttle it well get up and go, even with the ole lady on the back, I can't tell much of a difference between solo and 2 up. I did have it tuned, my dyno sheet is on here http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/dy...sing-96ci.html , I think they left some out of the tune but still pretty happy with it. To me, 88hp and 95tq is pretty good from a stock head motor. So till I do step up and do the 107, I wont complain.
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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JesseR, What map are you running? I use 700.
I also used the AutoMap Feature under the TMAX Control Center. Also ensure you have the latest firmware upgrade.
I had problems before when I first installed the 48H's last year. The firmware made it better and the AutoMap feature fine tunes it.
One call to Zipper's will help you out. They'll walk you through it over the phone.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I ended up finding an indy mechanic who did the job (putting in the 48H cams) and finished it up last night. I will post a more comprehensive review when I put a few more miles on it, possibly later today or maybe when the first couple hundred miles has elapsed & I can REALLY get on it! First impressions, though... It sounds TOTALLY different at idle. It now has that lope to it that makes it sound classic Harley! Score! Again, I kind of babied it for the ride home, but making a left turn and giving the throttle a twist as I came out of the turn made me smile involuntarily. Nothing seriously ground-breaking, but a noticable improvement of a "butt dyno" measurement down low. Thats exactly where I was looking for it. I seldom get the engine above 4500 rpm--the exception being the on-ramp of the freeway--so the power/torque beyond that is, for me, irrelevant. Anyway, long story short, I think this is how it should run coming off the showroom floor. Oh, Jamie from Fuelmoto cooked up a map for me on my Powervision. Next bit of typing is a thank-you note to him!

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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PCIII USB map for 48H

I was wondering if anyone has a good tried and tested pcIII map for the andrews 48 H cam set up.
I'm running a 96ci with the 48H cams, k&n high flow air filter, freedom true dual exhaust, stock heads.
I just finished this install and have a problem with poor throttle response, I think I'm running really rich with the current map and just need something to get me by until I get a dyno in the spring.
Any help would appreciated,


" keep up or stay home"
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Old 11-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zepp123 View Post
I was wondering if anyone has a good tried and tested pcIII map for the andrews 48 H cam set up.
I'm running a 96ci with the 48H cams, k&n high flow air filter, freedom true dual exhaust, stock heads.
I just finished this install and have a problem with poor throttle response, I think I'm running really rich with the current map and just need something to get me by until I get a dyno in the spring.
Any help would appreciated,


" keep up or stay home"
Not sure how much of difference there is between the PCIII and the PCV, but here is the map I am running in mine. Might be able to copy the number over into a new map.
Attached Files
File Type: pvm updated 11-04-2012.pvm (3.0 KB, 181 views)
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