Bike suddenly runs lean-dealer techs bamboozled

[Skiddplate]

Bike has been running strong since delivered, until just recently. Suddenly started losing power and pinging bad under load.
'08 FLHT with SE stage 2 103 kit, RB Racing LSR 2-1.
Parts were installed at dealer before bike delivered, had dyno break-in, then dyno tune. 88 hp/103 tq. Have ridden two up with baggage for hours at 80+ in very hot weather in the high desert numerous times, no issues.
Bike was purchased in WA state, took bike to dealer in Nevada to troubleshoot and was told after a base dyno run that shows no fuel delivery, air intake leak issues, that the bike was incorrectly dyno tuned initially. To fix he will have to dyno tune for 5 hours and will not be covered by warranty.
Called service manager where bike was bought, parts installed and dyno tuned, and the manager who has personally ridden the bike says bravo sierra. He knows the bike ran great when it left, and since it left his dealership, and now the bike just suddenly started running very lean. Bike has been ridden hard and strong for 3000 miles before this condition surfaced.
Bike needs to be fixed but I don't think I should pay for this, something obviously went south, I don't know why I have to pay for it, both service managers say the 103 kit and pipe don't void warranty, but a dyno tune isn't a warranty issue. Kind of at the mercy of HD at this point, suggestions anyone?

[Gulfstream]

Are you at a a much lower field elevation from where it was originally tuned? Same octane fuel? Could be one of your sensors $hit the bed too.

[ViennaHog]

Originally Posted by Skiddplate

Bike has been running strong since delivered, until just recently. Suddenly started losing power and pinging bad under load.
'08 FLHT with SE stage 2 103 kit, RB Racing LSR 2-1.
Parts were installed at dealer before bike delivered, had dyno break-in, then dyno tune. 88 hp/103 tq. Have ridden two up with baggage for hours at 80+ in very hot weather in the high desert numerous times, no issues.
Bike was purchased in WA state, took bike to dealer in Nevada to troubleshoot and was told after a base dyno run that shows no fuel delivery, air intake leak issues, that the bike was incorrectly dyno tuned initially. To fix he will have to dyno tune for 5 hours and will not be covered by warranty.
Called service manager where bike was bought, parts installed and dyno tuned, and the manager who has personally ridden the bike says bravo sierra. He knows the bike ran great when it left, and since it left his dealership, and now the bike just suddenly started running very lean. Bike has been ridden hard and strong for 3000 miles before this condition surfaced.
Bike needs to be fixed but I don't think I should pay for this, something obviously went south, I don't know why I have to pay for it, both service managers say the 103 kit and pipe don't void warranty, but a dyno tune isn't a warranty issue. Kind of at the mercy of HD at this point, suggestions anyone?

Looks more like a sensor failure or a fuel pump issue. Is this one of the early 2008 that had issues with the fuel filter housing? Could cause very similar trouble.

A sudden change in the performance of the engine has nothing to do with the state of the tune. Tuning story sounds BS to me.

[Skiddplate]

Bike was tuned at dealer in Spokane, bike is now at dealer in Las Vegas, elevation for both areas average 2000 ft. ASL. Plus I've ridden it hard in triple digit temps up in the Palouse in Washington, so I know it's not a sudden ambient temp diff. I've always run best quality 92 octane I can find, and service mgr at LV says his base run readout shows no problems with sensors or fuel delivery, which makes no sense to me or the service mgr at Spokane either. That housing was a recall issue and I did take it to dealer for inspection when that bulletin popped up. None of this makes sense and the guy just responding by saying it's a tuning issue that can be cleared up with a '5 hour dyno tune' ("Could take longer but we'll only charge for 5 hours.") irritates the sh_t out of me. Wish I could find a reputable tuner in the Pahrump/LV area. Effing dealers. BTW, bike also has SERT in addition to 103 SE2 and RB 2-1.

[baggersport]

What's the fuel pressure? Cranking compression? Carbon build up causing pre-ignition? The tune doesn't change all by itself......and you have a warranty still in effect?? Telling you it needs another tune, after miles of trouble free riding doesn't sound right.





.

[claydbal]

there is no possible way a dealer could warranty a dyno tune. doesnt the SERT tuned 08 touring use the 02 sensors? the dealer cannot confirm an intake leak? (characteristic of sudden lean)

you reckon, the map could change? easy---just compare the map you were given on disc to the current map. (sorta loaded ?)

sounds like dealers biggest problem is lake of diagnostic ability.

[Faast Ed]

Originally Posted by Skiddplate

Bike was tuned at dealer in Spokane, bike is now at dealer in Las Vegas, elevation for both areas average 2000 ft. ASL. Plus I've ridden it hard in triple digit temps up in the Palouse in Washington, so I know it's not a sudden ambient temp diff. I've always run best quality 92 octane I can find, and service mgr at LV says his base run readout shows no problems with sensors or fuel delivery, which makes no sense to me or the service mgr at Spokane either. That housing was a recall issue and I did take it to dealer for inspection when that bulletin popped up. None of this makes sense and the guy just responding by saying it's a tuning issue that can be cleared up with a '5 hour dyno tune' ("Could take longer but we'll only charge for 5 hours.") irritates the sh_t out of me. Wish I could find a reputable tuner in the Pahrump/LV area. Effing dealers. BTW, bike also has SERT in addition to 103 SE2 and RB 2-1.

Not clear why they didn't suggest to reload the map, in case it was corrupted. Original tuner can email a copy. All you should pay for is the time it takes to load the map.

I'm assuming they already looked for an intake leak.

[rbabos]

By chance did you buy fuel with more than 10% ethenol? This will make it run lean and require a remap to run right. Sounds like all the obvious culprits were looked at.
Ron

[ViennaHog]

A data run to check the basic values of head temp, map etc along with a fuel pressure test will show something.

[claydbal]

Originally Posted by ViennaHog

A data run to check the basic values of head temp, map etc along with a fuel pressure test will show something.

exactly ! if only the dealer would, could perform and interpret these tests.

[osolow]

I thought any work done to your bike with Harley parts before delivery would be covered under warranty?

will the dealer in Spokane take care of the problem?

have the two service managers talked to each other what dose the WA state Mgr say has he talked to his techs to see if the come up with the same conclusion?

sounds a little fishy?

[claydbal]

only work done by dealer using "green light " parts. then its mediocre at best. anything PERFORMANCE, or TUNING is not green light, therefore not warranted by HD. the selling dealer may cover your azz, but just look at the quality of service that gets you.

have your work done at a real shop, HD CANNOT VOID WARRANTY!

[Skiddplate]

I had the two mgrs talk yesterday and the Spokane dealer had their dyno guy on speaker with them listening to the Red Rock guy explain what he had found and what was needed. His explanation why it needed a complete remap was "he get's bikes from the Northwest all the time and when they get into the high temps normal with the Las Vegas area remapping is necessary." The Spokane mgr offered to send my map they have on file to him and he expressed no interest in it. I would have thought he'd jump on that offer. One given is that the bike was dyno tuned in the middle of a Washington winter and now I reside in southern Nevada, but as I pointed out before, it has been ridden in high temps before this, albeit not in the southern NV desert. Ethanol is common in Washington state as an additive, once that is run in the bike does it eff up the O2
sensors, or is it something that might correct itself once some non additive bearing fuel was run through? I definitely stayed away from pumps with 'E85" plastered on them, but I also understand that some states require some percentage of blend. And I too don't understand why the Vegas guy couldn't just load reload a map and and fine tweak the AFR's where needed, instead of creating a new one at 500+ duckets. I am actively looking for a real shop in the Vegas area, when I do I will have them go pick up my bike from these crackers. I absolutely appreciate your feedback guys.

[ViennaHog]

Originally Posted by Skiddplate

I had the two mgrs talk yesterday and the Spokane dealer had their dyno guy on speaker with them listening to the Red Rock guy explain what he had found and what was needed. His explanation why it needed a complete remap was "he get's bikes from the Northwest all the time and when they get into the high temps normal with the Las Vegas area remapping is necessary." The Spokane mgr offered to send my map they have on file to him and he expressed no interest in it. I would have thought he'd jump on that offer. One given is that the bike was dyno tuned in the middle of a Washington winter and now I reside in southern Nevada, but as I pointed out before, it has been ridden in high temps before this, albeit not in the southern NV desert. Ethanol is common in Washington state as an additive, once that is run in the bike does it eff up the O2
sensors, or is it something that might correct itself once some non additive bearing fuel was run through? I definitely stayed away from pumps with 'E85" plastered on them, but I also understand that some states require some percentage of blend. And I too don't understand why the Vegas guy couldn't just load reload a map and and fine tweak the AFR's where needed, instead of creating a new one at 500+ duckets. I am actively looking for a real shop in the Vegas area, when I do I will have them go pick up my bike from these crackers. I absolutely appreciate your feedback guys.

The EFI has correction capacity for air temp, ambient air pressure and engine temp to name a few. I assume the map has the closed loop function enabled which pretty much guarantees that the bike runs OK in most of the operating range.
If however you got a tank of really high ethanol gas, it will run lean and the closed loop function cannot correct it..

[claydbal]

what about ethanol attacking the rubber and plastic parts inside the tank, like the pressure hose, or the o-rings at the regulator?