Valve seals

[chrt396]

Here goes!!! I have gone 24,500 miles in 21 months on my 2005 RL Classic. Never had a warranty issue. The bike ran so perfectly that I was strongly considering NOT buying the extended warranty in two months when the factory warranty expires..until today!

Last night after my little lady and I were tooling around the city on a hot, humid Tampa night...I noticed the bike was running kinda sluggish and weird!! I checked the plugs last night...100 miles old, and noticed that the front cylinder plug had a black shiney coating on the ceramic base. I said..."HHmmmm...this ain't right!" I took it to my trusty HD parts guru...1st! He is always honest with me. He said it was valve seals. He asked another parts guy...2nd guru, and he agreed. Took it to service with two good opinions and they agreed. He said he couldn't take it in until the first part of August. Well...that is the first week of my first vacation in 7 years and I'm not missing that! Sooo...I called the next dealer 7 miles away..and I told him the story. He 's gonna get me in in 3 days..and it will take two days to fix!! In and out and ready for the rest of the week! How great is that???

BUT.....

Here are the questions I was asked of the service department...

1. Q. When was last oil change?
A. About 1000 miles ago.
2. Q How often do you change it?
A Too often..I'm anal about that stuff..about every 2000 miles
3. Q What kind of oil do you use?
A Amsoil 20-50w...Why??
Dealer says: "Well that's part of your problem!! It's too light weight and too slippery!
I say: "I've never heard that before! Are you telling me that my bike won't be covered?"
Dealer says: "No I won't tell you that, but we reccomend HD Syn 3...that may be why your bike has the problem that it does! It will be under warranty. When do you want to bring it in?"

Apointment set!

I'm not sure if my butt should pucker up or not!! It sounds like I'm in for a royal screwing or maybe I'm just being too defensive. I have not had the best luck with the local service facilities. I guess time will tell.

Wish me luck!! I'm going in head first!!!

HD has recognized that they had a problem with valve seals in the 05's and are fixing them under warranty. That was info that I was armed with from dealer #1
'

[TalonChief]

Originally Posted by chrt396

Here are the questions I was asked of the service department...

1. Q. When was last oil change?
A. About 1000 miles ago.
2. Q How often do you change it?
A Too often..I'm anal about that stuff..about every 2000 miles
3. Q What kind of oil do you use?
A Amsoil 20-50w...Why??
Dealer says: "Well that's part of your problem!! It's too light weight and too slippery!
I say: "I've never heard that before! Are you telling me that my bike won't be covered?"
Dealer says: "No I won't tell you that, but we reccomend HD Syn 3...that may be why your bike has the problem that it does! It will be under warranty. When do you want to bring it in?"

Ahhh, I guess this is the infamous bearing....er uh valve seal skate casued by non-HD synthetic oil.

There is a recognized issue with some valve seals. If the rest of the bike is fuctioning well, is the extended warranty worth the cost? Does your peace of mind justify it?

Really up to you. In my case I just cashed in one that I never used and declined one on my new FLHTC. MY mind is peaceful, in this case anyhow.

[84FXRP]

The valve seals on my '05 FXDI also leaked and I used Syn3. The dealer promptly repaired them under warranty with NO run around (and no "what kind of oil" questions either). Very pleased with their Service Department.

The seals are the only problem I've had with the bike, so I am not going to get the extended warranty.

[BaggerDave]

I have an 05 FLHTCI with only 4000 miles on it and the rear cylinder was burning oil. I wound up fixing it myself because I was doing a 95 kit anyway. I broke engine in on HD factory oil, then switched to Syn3. I guarantee 100% that the oil did not cause this problem. If you need the HD notice sent to dealers let me know and I can get you a copy of it.

David

[Thealien]

I would have them put it in writing that they believe it to be an amsoil situation. Send a copy to Amsoil. I am not sure I would want someone who said that working on my bike?

[tibs]

They probably just wanted to sell a case of oil with the repair job.

[jasilva]

Originally Posted by chrt396

BUT.....

Here are the questions I was asked of the service department...

1. Q. When was last oil change?
A. About 1000 miles ago.
2. Q How often do you change it?
A Too often..I'm anal about that stuff..about every 2000 miles
3. Q What kind of oil do you use?
A Amsoil 20-50w...Why??
Dealer says: "Well that's part of your problem!! It's too light weight and too slippery!
I say: "I've never heard that before! Are you telling me that my bike won't be covered?"
Dealer says: "No I won't tell you that, but we reccomend HD Syn 3...that may be why your bike has the problem that it does! It will be under warranty. When do you want to bring it in?"

Apointment set!

I'm not sure if my butt should pucker up or not!! It sounds like I'm in for a royal screwing or maybe I'm just being too defensive. I have not had the best luck with the local service facilities. I guess time will tell.

Wish me luck!! I'm going in head first!!!

HD has recognized that they had a problem with valve seals in the 05's and are fixing them under warranty. That was info that I was armed with from dealer #1
'

Just an FYI...Magnussen-Moss act states that if a manufacturer requires you to use specific brands of repair/maintenance parts to maintain your warranty coverage then they MUST PROVIDE YOU WITH THOSE PARTS AT NO COST TO YOU.

Also, Syn3 is 20w-50 oil also so how could you have had "too light of weight oil"?????????WTF?????????

So if this stealer tries to screw you into paying for this known problem with 05 valve seals. Tell them to stick it in their a$$. You met the requirements of the MM act. You used an acceptable weight oil from a reputable manufacturer who has had their oils tested and meet the SAE standards for oil.

Joe

[chrt396]

Originally Posted by Thealien

I would have them put it in writing that they believe it to be an amsoil situation. Send a copy to Amsoil. I am not sure I would want someone who said that working on my bike?

At this point..I don't have a lot of choice on getting it serviced, but I can assure you that this is the reason that I do my own maintainance on the bike. This is the same dealership that tells you.."If you install non-factory parts on the bike, it will void the warranty". I've heard that over and over. However...my bike is hardly complete with HD parts. We'll just have to see what kind of stories I get from them when I check the bike in on Tuesday.

I;ll keep you all posted on what is said when I ask them to write letter on Amsoil being one of the underlying problems. This should be intresting. I think however that I'll wait until after they fix it for free under warranty. Don't wanna piss em' off beforehand.

[johnsachs]

If someone told me my oil was too slippery,and the other reasons you were told,I would run away from that person/shop as fast as I could.
If you're in a time bind,there are a few people in the Tampa area that can help you.Try Wes Brown at Cyclerama.If you want to ping me off line,I know a Harley dealership mech.,that can do it on the side.
In any event,I wouldn't use the MoCo seals given the choice.If you're forced to,be sure they use the orange seals.
John

[rides99fatboy]

If you're looking for the TSB from Harley that describes the fix, I posted the PDF file within the last month for someone else. Search for posts under my name. Not sure which discussion forum it was under.

[chrt396]

Hey everyone...Bike is in shop as 5:00 PM eastern time...and within 15 minutes of being at front counter...some tech (I guess...he had grease all over his arms), looked at the spark plugs I had laid up on the counter and said..."Looks like someone's bike is running rich!!" I almost passed out with disbelief. 4 people in a row..look at the plugs and say valve seals...this putz looks at them and says Rich condition. I wanted to cry!! If the guy had not rolled the bike into a holding area, I probably would have jumped on it, rode off and said the hell with it!
I have to be patient...which is not my strong attribute. I'll wait until tommorrow or wednesday befor I get all worked up and pissed off. Meanwhile...I think I'll take a valium. Do ya'all know how lonely it is in this house..knowing that your bike is not where it is supposed to be??? I think I'll seek counseling!

[fxdl raw]

The dealer here in KC (Gails HD) did not even question the valve seals on my scoot. Just took it in and replaced them no questions asked. 84, you are luck that Bonmier (spelling?) no longer owns the dealership in Wichita. He would have blamed you for something then said it is not covered under warranty. Probably something stupid like under-inflated tires caused the valve seals to go out. When Alef bought it out, things have changed there and it is a reputable dealership. I bought my first bike down there in 99 when I was stationed there. I swore to never buy another one down there. Funny thing was, I was in the military stationed there and they would not take my assignment orders as proof I lived there (Wichita) because my checks had another address. I knew it was a flakey dealership at that point. If you are wanting a good indie down in your area, let me know. Even though I moved to KC three years ago I still take it to the indie I was using when I lived down there. Great work, $45 an hour for labor and 10-15% off of parts. Best thing is, he used to work at the "stealership" too. He knows what he is doing.

[chrt396]

Got a call this morning at 10:30 from dealer service department. Valve seals were bad as well as rings were not aligned properly (under warranty). They had to order rings..which may not be an issue cuz' I think that since they have got it torn down...I may get the 95 stage II kit!! I figured they already have most of the labor paid for under warranty! They get 4 hours to put the 203 cam in. I'll start a new thread on the topic. The tops of the pistons were loaded up bad with burnt carbon and oil deposits. Boy...am I glad I caught this now!! My warranty was to expire in september!

[84FXRP]

Originally Posted by fxdl raw

84, you are luck that Bonmier (spelling?) no longer owns the dealership in Wichita. He would have blamed you for something then said it is not covered under warranty. ....

FXDLRAW

I had all I wanted with Bonmier back in 1999. I purchased my current ride from City Cycle Sales in Junction City and have been very pleased with them.

I'm not sure what the new Wichita Harley dealer is like, I just know Bonmier & company drove me and a lot of other folks away.

It's about a 230 mile round trip for me to the Junction City Harley dealer, and less than 20 miles round trip to the Wichita dealer - but the Junction City folks are in a different league than Bonmier's group - vote with your wallet.

[fxdl raw]

As stated I had the 95 kit installed when the heads were off under warranty. Only paid 1.5 hours on the labor for the big jugs. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me. 84, if you want the independents name and information in El dorado just let me know. As I said, he does great work and is inexpensive..