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Old 10-20-2005, 09:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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P1356 and P1358

Hi guys. I'm hoping someone can give me some diagnostic help.
Mine is a 2003 Heritage Classic. I'm getting these errors intermittantly:
P1356 Rear Cylinder No Combustion EFI
P1358 Intermittent Secondary Rear EFI

They happen about 1-2 times per week while driving in 5th gear at highway speed (60 - 70 MPH) on flat road (no heavy load). I don't ride hard. I feel no engine miss, but I'm sure the computer is more sensitive to misses than me. The bike starts/runs just fine. These errors started about two weeks ago after I did these things:
- Every one of the 15k service items including new spark plugs.
- I changed the stock mufflers for Screamin Eagle torque mufflers (p/n 80388-01).
- Washed the bike with hose/water (my usual method) and dried with an electric leaf blower.

The engine light comes on but turns back off after about 30 seconds, so the errors are stored as "historic" trouble codes.

I have all of the manuals and followed the instructions for these errors in the Electrical Diagnostic manual. I see no signs of "carbon tracking". Resistance of the spark plug wires are right in middle of the spec. (rear = 2.6k ohms and front = 6.1k ohms). I don't have a "Harness connector test kit", p/n 41404.
- Can I somehow proceed through the yes/no maps w/o this "Harness connector test kit"?
- What are typical causes for these errors? Could I have a new defective spark plug?
- I DID NOT have the ECM mapped after replacing the pipes. I am still using the stock air cleaner. Could new pipes cause this?

I enjoy wrenching myself and don't have a warrenty on the bike. I hoping to fix it without a trip to the dealer. I sure would appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have had no combustion codes thrown by a fuel mixture ever so slightly off. Not enough to really feel, but once richened up, problem went away.

Teu
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've heard that if you use spark plugs other than stock HD these codes may pop. Also check the coil.
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelhunden
I have had no combustion codes thrown by a fuel mixture ever so slightly off. Not enough to really feel, but once richened up, problem went away.

Teu
Teufelhunden...you mean that you HAVE had combustion codes? You think running lean due to pipes might be the problems? Thanks.
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrowncods
I've heard that if you use spark plugs other than stock HD these codes may pop. Also check the coil.
Yeap...I heard that too. I used stock Harley plugs for the replacements. Thanks.
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Old 10-20-2005, 10:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtb
Teufelhunden...you mean that you HAVE had combustion codes? You think running lean due to pipes might be the problems? Thanks.

Yep, reread my previous and guess it was not clear. I have had the "no combustion" front and rear thrown by a slight lean condition.

Teu
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Old 10-20-2005, 11:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelhunden
Yep, reread my previous and guess it was not clear. I have had the "no combustion" front and rear thrown by a slight lean condition.

Teu
OK..thanks. I plan to pull the plugs for a look see. Maybe the plug color will help determine if the pipes are making it run lean. When I replace the plugs I took the old ones to the dealer for a second opinion. The service guys said that according to the plug color the bike was running perfect. This of course was with the stock pipes prior to the new torque mufflers.
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Old 10-21-2005, 09:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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sedelux05, thanks. I got new stock plugs from the dealer today to put in this weekend. While doing I'll check the stuff you mention. I bought a twin cam 88 scanner from daytona-sensors. I logged data from my drive home from work today. This is neat but I'm not sure what to do with all the data.
Anyway...anyone got any other ideas?
Thanks.
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Old 10-22-2005, 04:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEDELUXE05
bb how does the ecm know that they are not hd plugs. i beleive hd plugs are autolites or champions i switched to ngk $2.00 apeice had se platnium 15.00 for two the only one who felt the diffrencewas me . the trouble code might getting tripped due to a loose wire from vibration at highway speeds. check the spark plug wires and all connections if its only reading on 1 cylinder id bring it back to the stealer and ask them to check it out for you
Just sharing some of the info from this great site. Also the service manual and owners manual mentions only using original plugs. Maybe others more knowledgeable can answer how the ECU can tell. I think it has to do with the knock monitoring. Not sure on that though. Here is an actual case from the forum. There are more accounts of plugs fixing these codes. A search for "plugs P1358" will yield more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakotazeb
Had my 04 Road King Classic to the dealer today. Turns out what was caausing the bike to throw the codes was that I was running non-Harley plugs. I have to do with the dealer on this one. They checked out everything else. And it makes since because i first started having the problem after I installed a set of Champion plugs. I suspected the plugs and relaced the Champions with a set of NGK's. The dealer installed a set of Harley plugs and ran the bike for over a half hour on the dyno and could not get it to throw a code. I have also visited with a very reliable tech on another forum and he agrees with the findings.

So anyone out there thinking of changing plugs, you might want to reconsider if you are buying something other than Harley plugs.

Last edited by bbrowncods; 10-22-2005 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 10-22-2005, 07:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My '04 Ultra used to throw the same codes. Dealer told me that I was not holding the starter button down long enough after a 'heat soak' re-start and a slight kickback was the problem. Well, that fixed my problem, seems I remembered doin that once or twice after a long hot ride. Also I read somewhere in this forum that too much anti-sieze on the plug threads messes up the ground path and the coil / ion sensor sends the signal to store the code in the ecm. Anyway, no more codes for me... Rick
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Old 10-23-2005, 09:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkpickett
My '04 Ultra used to throw the same codes. Dealer told me that I was not holding the starter button down long enough after a 'heat soak' re-start and a slight kickback was the problem. Well, that fixed my problem, seems I remembered doin that once or twice after a long hot ride. Also I read somewhere in this forum that too much anti-sieze on the plug threads messes up the ground path and the coil / ion sensor sends the signal to store the code in the ecm. Anyway, no more codes for me... Rick
Rk...when you were not holding the starter button down long enough; did the error set immediately after starting? Thanks.
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Old 10-23-2005, 03:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks for replies from you guys. I changed the plugs today.
The plugs I pulled looked good. The rear plug indicates that rear cylinder is running just a little leaner than the front, but
not enough to be a problem I think. This is an intermittant problem so I'll just have to wait to see if the problem happens again. I'm suspicious of the new pipes without remapping the EFI may still be the problem.
Any other ideas would be appreciated.
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Old 10-23-2005, 03:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtb
Rk...when you were not holding the starter button down long enough; did the error set immediately after starting? Thanks.
Seemed like the check engine light would come back on after the next or second re-start, but since I started paying attention to hold it down past the 'kick-back' point untill the engine was fully running, no problems.
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Old 10-23-2005, 04:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkpickett
Seemed like the check engine light would come back on after the next or second re-start, but since I started paying attention to hold it down past the 'kick-back' point untill the engine was fully running, no problems.
Thanks. I'll start paying attention to that.
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Old 11-19-2005, 01:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I dont really question any problem with non HD stamped plugs, but what I do after 40 years on a bike and had many problems is getting into the habit of looking and trying things, one habit that is a goer and really makes a diff with spark plugs and you know the diff when you hop on and go is, any time a spark plug is removed or replaced I index the plug, this is done very simply by usinf a fine line texta mark on the outside of the plug on the ceramic part facing the closed end of the tip, the plug is then screwed into the head and only tightened so the texta mark faces you, this indicates a indexed plug and both will be facing towards the centre of the 2 valves. remember taking out the old plugs was not first marked therefore you have no idea of the original position.
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