Syn3 in factory new Screaming Eagles?

[bbrowncods]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't new Screaming Eagles come from the factory with synthetic oil? If that is true, then why does HD recommend waiting to change to synthetic until a motor is broken-in? This seems to be the general opinion of owners also.
I doubt that the new SE engines are broken-in before leaving the factory. This just looks to be an inconsistency from HD. Any opinions?

[JMS]

You can run the synthetic from day 1. Harley doesn't state that you have to wait, in fact HD states that you can use it from the start. "This formula [Syn3] is approved by Harley-Davidson for use in all stages of engine life and is not detrimental to the break-in stage of engines."

[wyodude]

SYN3 is a blend, not a true synthetic.

[JMS]

That's why I use Mobil 1.

[csoday]

They don't say it and you don't need to wait. The general concensus around here is, if you say it enough, it becomes a fact

[gunnut]

From the HD website. Note the last sentence:
"Screamin' Eagle® Synthetic Motorcycle Lubricant - SAE 20W50

TESTED-CERTIFIED for use in Harley-Davidson Engine, Primary Chaincase and Transmission applications, the new Screamin' Eagle® SYN3 Synthetic Lubricant makes changing and topping-off fluids a simple, one-product process. Developed with a proprietary blend of three synthetic basestocks, Screamin' Eagle SYN3 Lubricant is formulated to provide for long-term protection and engine cleanliness requirements and to provide superior high-temperature protection for high-output engines. SYN3 is formulated to maintain the coefficient of friction for proper clutch operation and to provide the proper lubrication to the primary chain drive. In addition, SYN3 is designed to provide the correct lubricity for the anti-wear requirements of transmission gears and for improved seal protection. This formula is approved by Harley-Davidson for use in all stages of engine life and is not detrimental to the break-in stage of engines."

[newultraclassic]

Originally Posted by bbrowncods

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't new Screaming Eagles come from the factory with synthetic oil? If that is true, then why does HD recommend waiting to change to synthetic until a motor is broken-in? This seems to be the general opinion of owners also.
I doubt that the new SE engines are broken-in before leaving the factory. This just looks to be an inconsistency from HD. Any opinions?

=================================================
My 2004 Ultra-Classic came with Syn3 in all three areas: Engine, Primary and Transmisison. I was told that that's the oil that they are putting in all of them nowadays, not just the Screaming Eagle bike. As mentioned by gunnut, the ads show that it is indeed a blend - of three different synthetic base stocks. that means it's 100% synthetic. The oil is called Syn3 "Screamin' Eagle"" brand in my catalog.

As far as there beiing inconsistencies from Harley-Davidson, this wouldn't be the first one, now would it?

[stonep]

I liked SYN3 too and had it put in all 3 holes until I started reading all the comments about wrecked transmissions. I drained it out after 30 miles and put in Torco V Series Transmission oil. Nothing except a major independent long term study of SYN3 performance over 100,000+ miles would make me put it back. Anyone know anything about Torco V Series oils?

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by stonep

I liked SYN3 too and had it put in all 3 holes until I started reading all the comments about wrecked transmissions. I drained it out after 30 miles and put in Torco V Series Transmission oil. Nothing except a major independent long term study of SYN3 performance over 100,000+ miles would make me put it back. Anyone know anything about Torco V Series oils?

I am using the 20w 50 Amsoil in my road king in all three holes. I just got back my oil analysis report on my tranny and one from a customers road king tranny using the Amsoil 75w 90 gearlube. Both reports show virtually no wear so at least with the Amsoil products there shouldn't be any issues if you want to use the motor oil in the tranny instead of gearlube. So I feel based on proof and not rumor about 20w 50 possibly causing tranny problems is just that, rumors. If there is problems developing it might be from something else and not the type of fluid being used. Of course I can't speak for the Syn3 because I have never used it and I don't have any used tranny fluid to send off to the lab. So I still recommend that you use what ever gives you the most comfort level when it comes to gearlube versus 20w 50 in the tranny.
__________________

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally Posted by newultraclassic

=================================================
My 2004 Ultra-Classic came with Syn3 in all three areas: Engine, Primary and Transmisison. I was told that that's the oil that they are putting in all of them nowadays, not just the Screaming Eagle bike. As mentioned by gunnut, the ads show that it is indeed a blend - of three different synthetic base stocks. that means it's 100% synthetic. The oil is called Syn3 "Screamin' Eagle"" brand in my catalog.

As far as there beiing inconsistencies from Harley-Davidson, this wouldn't be the first one, now would it?

That is just what Harley wants you to believe. It is a blend of 3 synthetic base stocks, however it also has a large blend of PAO II oils wich are not in any way shape or form synthetic. To know this you would need to look at the MSDS sheet for syn 3. You would also need to know PAO's I, II, and II are dino and PAO's IV and V are synthetic.

There is a very large topic about this in the Hot topic section and I believe the title is syn 3. The Syn 3 MSDS sheet is posted there.

A few years ago Mobil had a law suit against several oil makers for false advertisement. Mobil oil lost but the law suit was to try to prevent other oil companies from calling blends synthetic unless they were 100% syntetic. As long as the oil is part syntetic the maker can call it synthetic. So that is what Citco, casterol and others do. Citco makes syn 3 for HD.

There are only a few true 100% synthetics on the market. I know for a fact Amsoil, and Mobil 1 are true 100 % synthetic as I have seen there MSDS sheets. My understanding is Royal purple also falls into the true synthetic but have not seen their MSDS sheet.

[george douglas]

Originally Posted by stonep

I liked SYN3 too and had it put in all 3 holes until I started reading all the comments about wrecked transmissions. I drained it out after 30 miles and put in Torco V Series Transmission oil. Nothing except a major independent long term study of SYN3 performance over 100,000+ miles would make me put it back. Anyone know anything about Torco V Series oils?

Harley did a long term test of the syn3 in the tranny and the other two cavitites before they started selling the syn3. I don't know why I am defending harley oils after more than 30 years they bad mouthed synthetic oils until they brought theirs out and made a press release stating that there has never been a documentated case of engine damage caused from the use of synthetic oil. Their syn3 is a real chemical based synthetic oil and not like Castrol and most others that are using a 100% petroleum oil and calling it a full synthetic. As far as MSDS spec sheets, most true synthetics like Mobil will show some petroleum oil in the mix because they use it for what they call carrier oils to help keep the additives soluable. Most synthetic oil manufactures aren't good at designing their oils without some portion of petroleum in the mix just for the sole purpose of keeping the additives in suspension. Amsoil does it using both methods depending on what product we are talking about. There are very few 100% synthetic oils on the market. Most of Amsoil's synthetics fall into the 100% category. the most important thing to consider in an oil is it's performance level and not how it was made.

[Bruce Willis]

Originally Posted by bbrowncods

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't new Screaming Eagles come from the factory with synthetic oil? If that is true, then why does HD recommend waiting to change to synthetic until a motor is broken-in? This seems to be the general opinion of owners also.
I doubt that the new SE engines are broken-in before leaving the factory. This just looks to be an inconsistency from HD. Any opinions?

Harley does not say to wait for breakin before using their syn3, at least not up here in Canada

[47HO]

Originally Posted by FLSTFI Dave

That is just what Harley wants you to believe. It is a blend of 3 synthetic base stocks, however it also has a large blend of PAO II oils wich are not in any way shape or form synthetic. To know this you would need to look at the MSDS sheet for syn 3. You would also need to know PAO's I, II, and II are dino and PAO's IV and V are synthetic.

There is a very large topic about this in the Hot topic section and I believe the title is syn 3. The Syn 3 MSDS sheet is posted there.

A few years ago Mobil had a law suit against several oil makers for false advertisement. Mobil oil lost but the law suit was to try to prevent other oil companies from calling blends synthetic unless they were 100% syntetic. As long as the oil is part syntetic the maker can call it synthetic. So that is what Citco, casterol and others do. Citco makes syn 3 for HD.

There are only a few true 100% synthetics on the market. I know for a fact Amsoil, and Mobil 1 are true 100 % synthetic as I have seen there MSDS sheets. My understanding is Royal purple also falls into the true synthetic but have not seen their MSDS sheet.

Just for accuracy, it is Group I, II, III, IV, and V oils. PAO oils are one of the full synthetic base oils, and fall into Group IV. Group III oils are petroleum oils that have been hydrocracked, and can be marketed as synthetic (not 100% synthetic).

[TomB]

Originally Posted by stonep

Nothing except a major independent long term study of SYN3 performance over 100,000+ miles would make me put it back. Anyone know anything about Torco V Series oils?

I take that (since you're asking ...) you DON'T have a major independent long term study of Torco V Series performance over 100,000+ miles?

People, people, people ... oil is oil. Some is better than none, synthetic is better than fossil. After that it's all smoke-and-mirrors marketing. Come to think of it, maybe hell-and-damnation religious ferver is a better analogy.

[berserker]

What about syn 20w50 in cold weather? Regular 2ow50 is not recommended below 40 degrees. But they only make one weight.