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Help! Engine seized

23K views 57 replies 12 participants last post by  HDTC882000 
#1 ·
I have a 2002 Wide glide. It has a big bore kit on it the numbers on the piston say .010 and the cylinder bore was 3.90 and Andrews camshafts th55 I believe I cant remember what the letters were but the numbers were 55.

I was going down the road a few weeks ago and instantly the rear tire locked up and the engine just stopped with no signs of starting. I got it home and was able to break the engine free by getting a 12 inch adjustable wrench on the crankshaft bolt. I was not at all planning on putting it back on the road with it seizing so I pulled it all apart all the way down to just the crankcase left. Problem is I cant find anything wrong with it. The camshaft shoes did not break, the cylinder walls have no signs of seizure. The crankshaft spins fine with no resistance. I can not find a thing wrong. Could anyone give me some advice on what I should do?

Thank you??
 
#3 ·
That's what I had thought but it just didn't make sense to me. When I tried at first to rotate the engine myself it did not budge at all until I just kept working at it. I thought if the trans was locked I should be able to turn the motor easily in neutral. I don't have a jack to lift the bike. Can i put it in a high gear to check it?
 
#5 ·
Just went outside and tried it. Everything spins as it should. I'm just scratching my head as to why it seized and what exactly seized. I was traveling about 45 mph in fifth gear. A friend of mine who used to race Harleys said that's to low of a speed and to high of a gear. He thinks I was lugging it to much and starving it of oil causing it to overheat. I don't have a tach so I don't know how many RPM's I was turning. I have cruised at that speed before and have never had any trouble. I have no clue what to do :/
 
#6 · (Edited)
did you completely take out the cams? closely examine the oil pump, the inner cam bearings, if this checks out, make sure your crank sensor is intact (ive seen a sensor shredded apart and the magnet jamming between the case and the flywheel). The 02 cases have a tapered left bearing, the crank tolerance is close to 0 degrees in end play.. if you have any small metal pieces in that case, its going to create a lot of problems.

Of course, are you 100% sure the motor was locked up? I know you mentioned something in your second post, but since you got the motor torn apart.. I guess its a moot point..
 
#7 ·
I'm 100% sure it was the motor. Cams are off tensioner shoes are ready to be changed but not broken. I did not see any metal pieces in the crankcase or anywhere for that matter. The bike looks in near perfect condition. Camshaft bearings look to be in great shape. I will check out the crank sensor after work. I'll post some pictures of it taken apart and see what some people think probably next week after I get a chance to actual work on it again.
 
#8 ·
Do you still have the oil that was in the bike? If so, it would help you by having it tested for what is floating around. They can also tell if you had a bearing failure that maybe you have not found.
You did say that you looked at the entire drive train from front to rear and it was in good condition. Long distance troubleshooting is damn good luck at best. Best wishes for a good ending, Fairshake
 
#9 ·
Unfortunately I already drained the oil. I did cut the oil filter in half to see if I could find any metal shavings. A friend told me a truck of filling a small coffee can with gas and splash the filter around in it for a few seconds. No metal shavings were found.
 
#10 ·
At this point, I'm assuming that you inspected the valves, valve rockers and heads completely. This would involve a complete break down of the heads. Did you drop the oil pan? I know the last thing you would want to do is break down the case, how many miles do you have on the bottom end? Even though you already have the tapered left bearing, whats the crank run out? Is there any excessive crank end play?
 
#11 ·
I think I might take the heads to a dealer to get them inspected. From what I can see they look to be in good condition. I have not dropped the oil pan. I didn't even think of it honestly. I have not had a chance to check runout or anything on the crank besides look at it. I found something odd on the primary side of the crankshaft in the case it looks like something hit it. I'll have to get a picture on here when I get home.
 
#13 ·
I have come down to thinking I'm going to throw in the screamin eagle hydraulic cam tensioner kit with the oil pump. Then I'm going to put everything back together replacing seals and o-rings and ride it and see if it happens again maybe it will be easy to identify or maybe it was just a freak thing. Anyone have any opinions on this?
 
#16 ·
Do not chalk it up as a freak thing, take your time and find what it is, at the very least check ALL of your tolerances. Take some pictures too and post them.. curious about what you were talking about in that primary
 
#14 ·
I had a friend lock up in front of me on the nj turnpike. It turned out a bolt loosened up and fell out in the primary case. Locked that F'er up solid at 70 mph. We thought for sure he blew the motor!!!
So take your time and methodically go throw all posible theroies before blowing the motor apart...
Good luck and Thank God you walked away!
 
#19 · (Edited)
From what you are saying I would bet something came loose like a bolt or something and lodged in a gear somewhere. Then when you were trying to get the motor to turn you dislodged it and now everything turns freely.

So I would say something in the primary or something in the transmission. I would pull the entire primary apart and look for damage on the gears or in the clutch pack. If you find nothing I would then open up the transmission and do the same thing.

The only place in the motor that you should focus on is in the cam gears and chain. Another place to look would be your belt. maybe something got lodged in there and then fell out. See if your belt has any damage.

If it was in your heads like a stuck valve you would see that right away. Piston and valve would be damaged. Or if something made it's way into your cylinder that would leave all kinds of damage to the piston and heads. A cylinder just does not freeze up a motor like that when it is seizing up, it will slow your engine down then slowly seize up. You may have something down inside your lower case that jammed your flywheels but before I split my cases I would check everything else first.


Bruce
 
#20 ·
Posted pics. The indentation on the fourth picture is in three places on the crank. They are all equally spaced out too like it was made that way. I have a few more pictures of the pistons im trying to post. The cylinder scuffs I didn't see until my phone flashed taking the pictures.
 

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#22 ·
OK, thanks for the pictures, Do you have the primary torn down any more than the pictures show?

First of all, picture #4 on post 20 is the compensator spring pack, not the crank. Its a cup with a set of springs inside the cup, those indents are to keep the springs in place.

from the pic of the pistons, you have much more of a build than you think, you have forged pistons, (typical 95" upgrade has cast pistons).

The cylinders don't look that bad, showing typical ware, but keep in mind that putting it back together should involve re-honing and a new set of rings, (at the very least). and that's after you check for piston to cylinder tolerances.

With everything you explained and the pictures you show leads me to believe that you don't have a service manual.

Im going to ask you again, did you take out the cams completely? you show no pictures of the cam chest
 
#25 ·
It doesn't look like anything hit a piston and they certainly didn't lock up in the cylinders.
The motor actually looks great as far as the top end goes and if it spins freely and there's no rocking, grinding or popping, you should be good!
So I would direct my attention to the primary and trans.
It only takes a small piece of metal ( like a piece of a clutch plate) to lock up that primary chain at low rpm. Usually a trans will lock up during a shift.
Good luck my friend! That sucks and if you never find the cause, you'll always have it in the back of your head " when will it happen again?"
I only asked about the cam chest because the primary is still together. If I were you, while your top end is apart is to completely tear it down, even taking the rotor (stator magnets) off so you can closely inspect for any metal, and to closely inspect the crank shaft and spacer butted up against the left side engine case. when I first commented on this thread, I thought the primary was already torn apart.

Now if your cam chest looks like this:



then you got the cams out completely, here you can check your inner cam bearings.

once you have the primary, including the rotor, (stator can stay) and cam chest all apart (and you can not find any fault with any of the primary components) it would be easier to spin the crank to check for any bearing binding.

I got this video that shows a smoked crank, hopefully your crank is fine, but it shows a good way to test the condition of it. You can see how I am binding up on one spot, the rod bearing was smoked as well as the crank being sissored



I know I am probably giving you a lot to look at, but now that you got half the motor apart, I would inspect and investigate ALL the possibilities before you start putting it back together. Something happened that caused that rear wheel and engine to lock up. Don't be foolish and just chalk it up as a freak thing!
 
#24 ·
It doesn't look like anything hit a piston and they certainly didn't lock up in the cylinders.
The motor actually looks great as far as the top end goes and if it spins freely and there's no rocking, grinding or popping, you should be good!
So I would direct my attention to the primary and trans.
It only takes a small piece of metal ( like a piece of a clutch plate) to lock up that primary chain at low rpm. Usually a trans will lock up during a shift.
Good luck my friend! That sucks and if you never find the cause, you'll always have it in the back of your head " when will it happen again?"
 
#27 ·
I have not torn not it much this week work has been crazy busy. Good thing is with all the overtime throwing money at fixing it won't be an issue. This is not the only person who told me to check the primary/trans. I was asking a guy I was introduced to who works on bikes for a living about this and he said that he had something very similar to what I had happen on a customers bike and it ended up being the trans lock up. I got to thinking today what do you guys run in your transmission and primary for lube? I put amsoil in all 3 and I hope that's not the cause of any of this. I used amsoil in the engine last year when I bought it only changed the engine oil because it was rebuilt. Everything else was done upon purchase with HDs synthetic stuff
 
#28 · (Edited)
OK, Im scratching my head here. when this lock up problem first happened and you FIRST got the motor to turn, How did you get the motor to turn? You got to tell us the whole story exactly how you did it. I will ask a few questions in bullets, copy and paste the questions then answer every one. It will be easier for people here to help

-Did you take anything apart before you were able to turn the motor?

-Did you get the motor to turn having it in 5th gear and spinning the rear wheel?
or
-Did you take the primary cover off and spin the motor from the comp nut with the spark plugs removed?

-did the rear wheel spin freely in neutral?
 
#29 ·
Sorry I'm getting a lot of different questions I'll explain what I did as good as I can.

I loaded the bike onto a trailer. Pushed it obviously in neutral and it was an easy push.

The very first thing I did was pulled the spark plugs to try to get a look at the pistons.(no luck which I figured would that much)

Then I drained the engine oil and primary chaincase oil. Looked for any sediments in the oil from both the engine and the primary (both had maybe 100 miles on oil change and oil looked normal)

I then pulled the primary cover off. I thought if I could get something on the comp nut (which I believe I have been calling it the crankshaft nut) and try to spin it it would tell me if it's the engine or something else. It was very hard to turn but by rocking it just enough it broke whatever it was free and the engine fully turned manually by hand perfectly without much resistance. No spark plugs were in at this point.

I knew that either way I didn't want to try to start it thinking it was just a freak thing so I began to tear apart the cylinders to see if the top end froze up.

After I took it all apart I read on here to push it forward in fifth gear to check the trans. I did that and it rolled forward with little resistance.

I then took off the cam cover and cam chest thinking maybe the cam tensioners had broke which they did not.

I inspected all components removed. Checked all tolerances and made sure they were within spec, which they were.

And that's as far as I have got since I have lost time to work on it anymore.

Sorry for any confusion. I would copy and paste but my phone won't allow me to do that and this is what I have been using for posting.

I just wanted to take a moment also to say I appreciate everyone's input as well it has helped me think quite a bit. If there is any more questions please ask I know trying to understand what someone is explaining through a computer can be difficult at times.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Sorry I'm getting a lot of different questions I'll explain what I did as good as I can.

I loaded the bike onto a trailer. Pushed it obviously in neutral and it was an easy push.

The very first thing I did was pulled the spark plugs to try to get a look at the pistons.(no luck which I figured would that much)

Then I drained the engine oil and primary chaincase oil. Looked for any sediments in the oil from both the engine and the primary (both had maybe 100 miles on oil change and oil looked normal)

I then pulled the primary cover off. I thought if I could get something on the comp nut (which I believe I have been calling it the crankshaft nut) and try to spin it it would tell me if it's the engine or something else. It was very hard to turn but by rocking it just enough it broke whatever it was free and the engine fully turned manually by hand perfectly without much resistance. No spark plugs were in at this point.

I knew that either way I didn't want to try to start it thinking it was just a freak thing so I began to tear apart the cylinders to see if the top end froze up.

After I took it all apart I read on here to push it forward in fifth gear to check the trans. I did that and it rolled forward with little resistance.

I then took off the cam cover and cam chest thinking maybe the cam tensioners had broke which they did not.

I inspected all components removed. Checked all tolerances and made sure they were within spec, which they were.

And that's as far as I have got since I have lost time to work on it anymore.

Sorry for any confusion. I would copy and paste but my phone won't allow me to do that and this is what I have been using for posting.

I just wanted to take a moment also to say I appreciate everyone's input as well it has helped me think quite a bit. If there is any more questions please ask I know trying to understand what someone is explaining through a computer can be difficult at times.
When rocking the motor free did it break loose all at once or a little on each stroke?
OK, my head is heading in the right direction now, lol, couple more questions..

-the part I quoted and hi-lighted red, did you have the transmission in neutral?

Assuming that it was in neutral, the primary chain should of spun freely to the clutch basket thats attached to the rear drive chain sprocket

-now given that last statement in consideration, when you first tried to spin the motor, did it feel like the chain was holding you back, did the chain get tight? or do you think you weren't applying enough force at first to compensate for the valve spring pressure to turn the motor?

this last question is the most important one to answer..
 
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