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Old 11-30-2012, 01:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I did this myself on my '01 FXDX with the -11 kit. It's really for my own peace of mind. I kept my original Andrews #37 cams but replaced the lifters at the same time. The work went as per the instruction sheets supplied.
You should note that the kit mentioned is not the only one required, you do need to purchase new bearings, spacers etc but that is all mentioned in the kit. I purchased the outer cam bearings and circlips separately though as the kit of parts recommended included lots of parts I didn't need. And it was expensive in the UK!
As a result the oil pressure increased nicely. This increase did find a small oil leak in the feed to the oil pressure guage I have but easily fixed. I'm happy!
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm really not sure which way to go with this; I got two different quotes,

$2600, including the 20K mile service, fork oil, etc; changing to gear driven chain tensioner conversion. Freedom Cycles in Orange, CA.

$1400 gear driven chain tensioner conversion. OC Harley Davidson dealer, Irvine CA.

How do you know where to go? Maybe I can do it myself? I have experience mechanically, rebuilt a couple of car engines. Just never worked on a Harley.
Is $2600 too much?

And, what's the difference between the hydraulic kit and the gear kit?
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Is there another year of Harley that doesn't have the cam chain tensioner issue? Maybe 1997 Road Kings, for example?
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The spring loaded cam chain tensioners were on the 1999 - 2006 TC88 motors. Because of the tension of the springs against the cam chains (there are two) and the quality of the material in the cam shoes, this is a wear item. Depending on riding style, oil changes and most of all, the smoothness of the cam chains, the cam shoes can grenade at 20k miles or last 75K+. I have a 2003 Deuce and pulled the cam cover last summer and the chains are smooth and there are no grooves in the cam shoes. 26K miles so far and I won't have to check them again for awhile.
The 2006 Dyna and all models in 2007 and beyond have a hydraulic cam tensioner system. Not sure exactly how it works, but the tension on the cam chains varies with engine speed and load. That plus improved pad materials makes the new system more reliable and last longer.
Going with geared cams eliminates the chains and shoes (pads). Good solution, but your crank runout can't be more than .003", I believe. There are some excellent videos posted about the process of performing both the hydro system and geared system.
A 1997 RK would have the Evolution motor, which has a single geared cam. None of these issues apply to that machine. Hope this helps.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Of course you can go to gear drive cams and eliminate chain tension all together!
http://www.sscycle.com/product/Twin-...ar-Drive-c779/
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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What problems do the EVO motors have, if any?
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
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EVO motors have very little if any problems. The biggest complaint is seeping base gaskets on the cylinders and the worst complaint was the cam bearing failing. The bearing failure is mostly due to poor oil, not warming the motor before driving like you stole it and the biggest cause was installing a hot cam without replacing the Harley bearing. I've only known one person out of hundreds that it happened too!
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugie03flhr View Post
EVO motors have very little if any problems. The biggest complaint is seeping base gaskets on the cylinders and the worst complaint was the cam bearing failing. The bearing failure is mostly due to poor oil, not warming the motor before driving like you stole it and the biggest cause was installing a hot cam without replacing the Harley bearing. I've only known one person out of hundreds that it happened too!
If I would have known this, I may have looked for a 1997 or 1998 model.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Nitram_b4 is reading this now saying WTF is this?
nothing wrong with twin cams, you can just replace the shoes if you want.
I got 60,000 miles on mine, and I beat the dog snot out of it.
and depending on the year there is issues with Evos as well
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I spoke with a Harley mechanic from an outside shop (indy?) - he told me he was 99% certain that my runout would be within spec for a geared camshaft. I was told the 96 CI motors were the ones that had the problem with crankshaft runout.
Still thinking about doing the geared conversion myself.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
I spoke with a Harley mechanic from an outside shop (indy?) - he told me he was 99% certain that my runout would be within spec for a geared camshaft. I was told the 96 CI motors were the ones that had the problem with crankshaft runout.
Still thinking about doing the geared conversion myself.
Done alot of research on this subject , I have 01 TC88 hasn't got 4K on it yet. I've decided when it's time for tensioners I'll convert to gears , change cams , oil pump ect.

There's a couple special tools you need also , J&P / S&S has some really good video's to give you an idea what your in for , you will have to change to gear drive cams.


Last edited by 67duce; 12-16-2012 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:18 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Hydraulic Cam Tensioner Upgrade

If you're like me and have a 00-06 Twin Cam (mine is a 03 FLTRI), you're probably thinking about you're camshaft tensioners. Since I first did the modifications to my bike (95" kit / SE Heads / SE203 Cams / Air filter/ Rinehart True Duals /Oil Cooler / EFI Race Tuner) shortly after buying it in 03, I had always been concerned with the stock cam tensioners.

After reading numerous posts on the subject I decided to post my experience with the tensioners. I replaced my tensioners at 37K - Glad I did- my tensioners were on their last legs. I think one more long trip and I would have been in a world of hurt. Interestingly, they both were fairly evenly worn, although the inner looked to be about 85% gone whereas the front was about 70% gone. Mine didn't come apart like some I have seen, but I think as they approach a certain wear, that wear accelerates due to design characteristics and less heat dissipation of the shoes as they wear out.

On final note before I get into the parts list and tools required for the job - I will sometimes ride fairly aggressively here in the mountains of southwest Colorado - i.e. I don't necessarily baby my bike other than changing the oil every 3K and oil and filter every other 3K. Also, since moving to southwest Colorado I have gone back to California several times and that basically involves getting on the highway @ 80+mph for extended periods of time, and sometimes out in the middle of nowhere (Hwy 50 is well known as the loneliest road in America for a reason and often you'll run 150+ miles between services let alone cell phone coverage - in other words, I don't want to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere with a broken bike and this replacement has saved me ton's of worries.

Following is the list of parts I used - virtually all were purchased on e-bay or Amazon and I saved roughly 20% vs dealer list. There are of course many different options out there, but I chose staying with Harley parts (with the exception of the inner cam bearings) as I already had the cams and was familiar with the process from prior experience.

I also included a list of specialty tools (other than the typical tools found in an ordinary Craftsman or Snap- On tool set) below with an explanation of why I chose to purchase some and omitted others.

Harley SE Cam Plate Upgrade

Hybrid Cam Plate Kit P/N25284-11 395.00

Spacer Kit P/N 25285-08 17.00

Install Kit 17045-99D 99.00

Retention Kit 25533-99A 5.00

Timpken Inner Cam Bearings 15.00

(Toss the brgs in the kit)

Misc. (Oil / Filter / Loctite) 35.00



Subtotal Parts 566.00



Tools

Heartland Inner Cam Bearing Puller/Installer 120.00

Harbor Freight Bearing Puller 40.00

Harbor Freight Press 70.00

Camshaft Jigs not used

Camshaft Locking Tool not used

Subtotal Tools 230.00



Total 796.00



I elected not to buy the Harley "Roller Bearing" puller as the Harbor Freight bearing puller was a quarter of the price and functioned perfectly in removing the roller bearing from my existing camshaft (and can be used for other applications around the workshop). Additionally, I did not feelI needed the cam shaft install jigs - anyone with basic mechanical knowledge realizes that when pressing bearings (in or out), alignment of the press ram is critical and this can be achieved with common sense and the appropriately sized socket from your typical 3/8 or 1/2 inch socket set. Also - did not need the camshaft locking tool as you can easily tighten the camshaft and crankshaft gear bolts to proper spec by putting the bike in 5th gear and lowering the bike to the ground.

The Harbor Freight 6 ton press is admittedly not the strongest press but is more than sufficient to press out cam bearings. Additionally, it's already paid for itself when I had to press out and install new driveshaft U-Joints on my wife's Jeep Liberty and daughters Jeep Sport. A nice thing as well is that it's rather small, fits on a typical workbench and stores easily.

Some have questioned purchasing a "use one time" only inner cam bearing puller / installer. It really boils down to an insurance policy. On the one hand you don't have to replace the inner bearings (not recommended as I consider them the other weak link in the camshaft chest and if you're in there why do it half ass). Of course you could rent a blind puller from your local auto parts store, but if you don't get the proper collet or if something goes wrong and the bearing falls apart, you'll be looking to get really really drunk because the hundred bucks you saved just cost you 3 or 4 grand for a motor tear down - i.e. pieces of needle bearing in the crankcase is a very bad thing!!.

One upside to consider when buying these tools is that if you have a fair amount of friends who own TwinCam Harley's like I do, these tools will very quickly pay for themselves. So far they've been used three times and each time the friend that borrowed them reciprocated with a case of Corona or Beck's or a good bottle of Red wine. I figure I should happily approach breakeven sometime next summer.

All in all - I spent 800 bucks (vs the 1350 quote I got from the local dealer), have some extra specialty tools for my workshop, a new high flow oil pump and most importantly peace of mind that comes from the hydraulic tensioners. The process is not that difficult and takes roughly 6 -8 hours depending on your mechanical acumen. The instructions that come with the parts are fairly thorough, however having a factory shop manual is a definite plus. One last thing to consider are adjustable pushrods - if you don't already have them you'll have to remove the rocker boxes and pull the pushrods out of the top of the motor - not an overly difficult operation but it will add a couple of hours to the job.

Hope this helps - I will reply to any questions
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Roadglide, thanks for the heads up on what is needed etc. I will be tearing into this project this weekend. Do you happen to have the suppliers that you obtained the tools from? I don't have much $ and this is going to hurt pretty bad with the kit and all. I do have other friends that have harly's so I had best make sure I have what is needed. Again thanks for the info
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:19 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Cam tensioner upgrade

Changed my 05 Ultra to the screaming eagle hydraulic version plate and added andrews mild cams, replaced the bearing with Timken at about 45,000 miles. Just returned from Sturgis, about 3800 mile trip, my bike runs like a dream, no wear on the adjusters....Oh and I just turned 115,000 miles.
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Hey george c I did mine but I went with the tensioners from cyco gaskets. They replacr the stock tensioners with upgraded shoes. 8 bucks for shoes I have the tool to swedge the pins. You can get everything lifestyle cycles including the cam service kit which is all the gaskets you need. Just make sure you pick up the torrington bearings also . I have all the pullers and installers
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