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Old 12-26-2008, 03:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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ISC actuator MM injection Help

I have a 99 RoadKing with MM fuel injection and have been having problems with cold idle.

I have read through every post I can find but don't see my problem.

I replaced the ISC actuator (stepper motor) and the engine temp sensor and have no intake leaks. This is what happens. If I understand this correctly, the actuator should park itself in the extended position when the ignition switch is turned off. It does this sometimes, but not others and only extends part of the way out. I have also checked the relay for the ECM and it stays activated for the 10 seconds like it's supposed to providing power to the ISC.

Bottom line is I can't get it to cold idle no matter what. I've been through the resetting of the cold idle a million times, pulling the fuses etc. and it makes no difference. The actuator seems to move sometimes but not others and difference distances at different start/up - shutdowns.

Otherwise the bike runs fine and idles correctly after it warms up, it just won't fast idle at startup.

Any suggestions?
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You need to adjust the cold idle. IIRC there is a post here...let me see if I can find it for you. Here is one I found:
ADJUSTING THE IDLE ON MAGNETI-MORELLI EFI

You need to make sure the throttle cables are not hanging up, are lubed properly and the throttle is closing all the way, and the throttle return spring is OK. If all this checks out:

I'm assuming you have MM EFI. If so:

1. Remove your right saddlebag and side cover.
2. Remove air cleaner assembly
3. Start the bike and make sure it is at normal operating temp.

You Need A Tach For This Part:

4. Adjust the hot idle to 950/1050 rpm.
5. Unplug the temp sensor.

Your bike now thinks its cold!

6. Set the cold idle to 1500rpm
7. Shut the bike off.
8. Remove the 5 and 15 amp fuses from the fuse block which is on the side you took the cover off of.
9. Plug the cold sensor connector back in.
10. Replace the air cleaner assembly.
11. Wait at least 30 minutes, then replace the 2 fuses
12.Replace the side cover.
13. Replace the saddlebag.

When you restart your bike, the ECM should remember the new idle settings you did.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A different way of doing the above mentioned that I found if you have no luck with setting it...

This describes a method to set cold and hot idle speed on Magneti-Morelli EFI systems.

First, when it comes to setting cold idle, the service manual leads you down a path of frustration. This is a very simple and effective way of adjusting it. If you start the engine stone cold and it idles below 1200 rpm (after it stabilizes) then turn the cold idle screw (in linkage, on the side that rotates with the throttle plates) in. If it's over 1300 rpm, then turn the screw out (therefore, set cold idle speed at 1200 rpm for TC-88's) It’s that easy. Also, to guarantee that the idle will be recognized by the ECM, run the bike until it's fully warmed up, turn the hot idle (in the throttle body, forward of the front intake, near the bottom) up to 1200 rpm, shut off the ignition and pull the 5 amp fuse (in the fuse holder on the ECM bracket), run a lead from the cold (relay) side of the 5 amp socket to ground. Let it sit for 15 minutes or longer if practical, then put the fuse back in and warm it back up, turn it back down to 1000. Works like a charm.

The Magneti-Morelli was used on baggers from 96-01 never on Softails. The Delphi is used on the Softails and all '02 and later baggers.
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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here is a post i did a few months ago...when i changed my ISCA.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/tw...es-solved.html

So if you have already got a new ISCA then forget all the remove fuse, remove battery tricks...it is worthless.
IIRC...my mind slips first thing in the morning...once you have the ISCA installed and you bike is cold (you may need to leave it sit over night) you can accurately adjust the cold idle setting. As I stated in the post (link above) all the idle settings are mechanical...adjusting a set screw. Again...going from a failing memory...on the cold idle,
-Remove the air cleaner and backing plate.
-Turn the butterfly open with your hand to reveal the cold idle screw. It takes a small torx...maybe a 10 or so...
-with a cold...i mean cold...bike...if you can leave it in the cold over night (outside on a cold night), you will have more time to play with the idle as it takes the bike engine longer to get to operating temp.
-crank the bike and see where the idle rpm is. Move the set screw to get it to around 1500 - 1700 rpm when cold. Remember the longer you run the bike the warmer it is getting...so do this quick.
-once you get the cold set then let the bike warm up..it may take 10 minutes or so.
-now you can adjust the warm idle screw. This set screw is located on the front portion of the throttle body...sort of behind where the backing plate mounts. In fact there is a hole in the backing plate to access the screw.
-Adjust warm idle to 1000 - 1100 rpm. Rule of thumb...with the air cleaner off adjust the warm idle 100 rpm higher than you need. Once you put the AC back on the slight air flow restriction will bring the rpm down a bit.

Now this procedure has worked for me on a couple different bikes. So forget the previous post i made...it is very frustrating. Also note that if you changed the ISCA you should have also got in the kit the little part with the ball bearing on it...make sure you changed it as well. That bearing will go bad and not allow the butterfly to open properly.

I hope this helps.
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Question for Hardy

Thanks for your response. I did replace the ISC and still have the same problems I had with the original. I also read your post and believe my problem may be different. Even stone cold if I cycle the ignition switch, the actuator will extend sometimes and not others. The amount it extends also varies. If I understand correctly how it should work, When you shut the engine off, the actuator should retract, and then extend the same distance all the time.

If you remember or can check, About how far does the actuator extend when stone cold?
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I did change the arm with the ball bearing in it. It came with the isc kit.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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...Is your battery fully charged, with good clean "snugged up" connections?
My starting routine is: key on, run switch on, when the engine lite goes out I hit the starter, no blipping the throttle. The idle is good for about two minutes then it {sometimes} falls off below what it should be...at that time either I'm ready to leave or I shut it down until I am ready, letting the engine "heat soak".
Once in awhile the idle will fall off and I simply hold the throttle{or use the tensioner}to keep it "up".
I have found the MM f/i to be OK, almost as consistant as my carb'd Sportster.
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Is the throttle body clean?

On the M/M system at idle with the butterfly closed idle air is supplied through two holes at the top of each throat. If they get gummed up the air flow is off. Clean the throttle body with brake cleaner or carb cleaner and insert the straw into those holes and clean them thoroughly.

If you want to change the air flow through those holes you can remove the air cleaner to access two brass screws that will allow adjustment. You will have to remove the epoxy over the screw to make adjustments.
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Old 12-27-2008, 05:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-O View Post
Thanks for your response. I did replace the ISC and still have the same problems I had with the original. I also read your post and believe my problem may be different. Even stone cold if I cycle the ignition switch, the actuator will extend sometimes and not others. The amount it extends also varies. If I understand correctly how it should work, When you shut the engine off, the actuator should retract, and then extend the same distance all the time.

If you remember or can check, About how far does the actuator extend when stone cold?
Just checked my M/M and from stone cold (2 days) the plunger moves out about .050". Turn off the ignition and it moves about .100" to park and then out .050" before the relay clicks.

Since your problem is intermittent I would guess there is a signal loss from the ECM. Remove the right side cover and remove the rubber boot from the ECM plug. Lift the latch and remove the plug and check the contacts for corrosion at the ECM and the plug. Plug it back up and reinstall the rubber boot over the ears on the ECM bracket so water won't get into the ECM.

If the problem returns you will need to have the dealer check your ECM for fault codes and whether or not you ECM is working properly.

Oh by the way, the cleaning procedure won't help the IAC stepper motor.
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Old 12-27-2008, 06:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
If you want to change the air flow through those holes you can remove the air cleaner to access two brass screws that will allow adjustment. You will have to remove the epoxy over the screw to make adjustments.
I would let that be the extreme last resort as you can really fubar a MM efi if you dont have the proper tools to get the efi properly set again. If you do go that route then you need to check the voltage...which becomes a real PITA and confusing...IMHO.

I do agree, make sure everything is super clean with carb cleaner. If you have already removed/moved the screws in the epoxy, then you may not be able to get this efi properly set...no matter what you do...unless you go the voltage route...remember last resort.

I also agree that if you have set all the mechanical screws then you need to set the electronic settings...see my first post on that procedure.
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Old 12-27-2008, 08:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Fixed

Thanks to all.

After fooling around with it all day, I followed some of the troubleshooting from the manual. After measuring resistance between the ISC plug and the connector to the ECM, I found a problem. Opened up the ECM connector and found a wire that had come loose from the connector. Soldered it up and everything now works as it should.

I put off following the diagnostics in the manual thinking,,,What are the odds that its something like a shorted or broken wire??

Just goes to show...

Thanks again for all your responses.
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Old 12-27-2008, 09:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardy View Post
I would let that be the extreme last resort as you can really fubar a MM efi if you dont have the proper tools to get the efi properly set again. If you do go that route then you need to check the voltage...which becomes a real PITA and confusing...IMHO.
That's why I count the turns out and record them before I change the settings.
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