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Old 08-25-2008, 07:34 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Magneti-Marelli Issues Solved

I have a 2001 EG Ultra with 60K +- miles. Hard to be accurate on this miles as this is the 3rd speedometer...long story...
Anyhow, I have had the "typical" warm/cold idle issues with my M-M for some time now. Once in a while, like most M-M the warm idle would just stop remembering what it is supposed to be set to.

A couple weeks ago the cold idle started the same thing. Bike would hardly run first thing in the morning. I spent a couple afternoons troubleshooting and was at wits end. i had searched the WWW to find some info on this issue. See, the old, remove the fuse, rested the idle, etc, etc, etc was not working. So finally, i figured out the problem...the idle speed control actuator was faulty. ISCA for short. This little contraption is the key to getting the M-M idle set correctly. If it is bad then you can adjust the idle all you want and the bike will still run like crap...bad starting, low idle, popping on decel, etc...nearly all your efi issues...except for leaks can be contributed to this jewel.
The ISCA engages once you turn on the ignition switch. It makes the EFI open up then slightly close based on the engine temp. I am not sure if the delphi EFI has it, but on all M-M efi, look directly behind the air cleaner cover, once you switch the bike on...while you are waiting for the engine light to turn off, look down to the top of the EFI throttle body and the ISCA will do a little dance moving the throttle out-in-back out, etc for a couple seconds. When it detects the proper settings based on the engine temp it will stabilize. Well, my ISCA was not doing this dance. Sure, i could get the warm idle set, but then the cold idle was way off and vice-verse. The ISCA coast 90$ or so and takes about an hour to remove & install. Then another 20 minutes or so getting the idle settings back in place. After I put the new ISCA on my cold idle was 2500 rpm. Talk about out of whack.
A couple things I noticed while trying to find some information about my issue...I hope I don't step on any toes, but there is some mis-information out there on the M-M...mainly because it is hard to find any mechanic at the H-D shop that has even seen a M-M efi and one that had actually worked on one is even more rare...an indy shop is generally the best place to find a mechanic that knows about a M-M...i digress.
-if the ISCA is faulty there is no need to tinker with the idle speed settings...warm or cold. You are not fixing the problem just masking the symptoms.
-manually adjusting the idle screws does not require removing the battery cable or the fuses. This is a mechanical setting. The set screws are the stop limits to the throttle and are not electrically based, but a physical stop.
-do not adjust the throttle position sensor...has epoxy in the screw holes...this should be used as a last resort and unless you have the proper tools to check the efi voltage, you can really screw up the efi.
-make sure you don't have any leaks. A squirt of carb clear will find a leak real fast.
-a properly adjust M-M efi upon a complete cold start will run at 1500 rpms for a couple seconds then back to 1200 rpms then back to the warm settings, about 1000 rpms...of course, based on outside temps as well. You should not have to romp on the throttle to get the rpms to release...

My bike runs better now, gets better gas mileage and runs at 300 less rpms at 60 mph than before...thus the better gas mileage.

There is some good info on this site from other that have had M-M issues. And I ready one post that stated if you own a M-M efi HD then you had better learn to work on it...I agree, most new bike mechanics are clueless to anything that is older than 2005. Damn, i would hate to ride into the hd shop on a shovelhead needing services...LOL. Anyhow, maybe this will help someone else doen the road. I think my next tool will be the EFI breakout voltage box...
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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claydbal is reading this now saying WTF is this?
great info!!

you got a typo toward the end, it says you run 300 rpm less at 60 mph.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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NO...no typo.
Before the ISCA replacement i ran 2900 rpm at 60 mph. Now I am 2500 - 2600 rpm at 60 mph.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
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NO...no typo.
Before the ISCA replacement i ran 2900 rpm at 60 mph. Now I am 2500 - 2600 rpm at 60 mph.
Your tach reading may have changed but I doubt your actual rpm at the motor changed.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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not to get into a pi$$ing contest but the RPMs are lower. The on board tach is accurate as I double checked with the PCIII interface. Now, sure I didn't do it going down the road at 60mph but the tach states 2000 the PCIII states 2000, and 3000, and so on...so i am definitely running lower RPMs. I can even tell by the engine sound. In fact if the tach was off that much wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having a tach...btw this tach is brand new... i replaced it less than one month ago, due to the original died due to a voltage spike.

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Old 08-25-2008, 09:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardy View Post
not to get into a pi$$ing contest but the RPMs are lower. The on board tach is accurate as I double checked with the PCIII interface. Now, sure I didn't do it going down the road at 60mph but the tach states 2000 the PCIII states 2000, and 3000, and so on...so i am definitely running lower RPMs. I can even tell by the engine sound. In fact if the tach was off that much wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having a tach...btw this tach is brand new... i replaced it less than one month ago, due to the original died due to a voltage spike.

And I thought that the "math" stayed the same reguardless of how bad or how good the engine ran.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I agree with the others, there is no physical way that changing the ISCA would change your gear ratios. In order for you to have a 300 RPM drop at a set speed, you would have had to have changed your final drive ratio with a new sprocket, pulley, or overdrive transmission gear.

It's possible that your current or previous speedometer is/was out of calibration. You did indicate that you're on your third. I would check your speed against a GPS to ensure that it is accurate.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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guys...i am telling you what i see on the gauges. Granted, it the speedo is off now then it was off last week before i changed the ISCA.
It is like getting on your scale at home. You weight 200# but the doctors scale weights you at 190#. You loose some weight. Your scale has you at 180# and your doctors at 170# so either way you have lost 20# total no matter the scale. Same thing here.

I was running 2800- 2900 rpm at 60MPH now i am running 2500 - 2600 RPM at 60 MPH. Same gauges... The PCIII interface has proven the tach is accurate. Meaning PCIII reads 2000 rpm...tach reads 2000 rpm. Now, granted i am on the 3rd speedo due to a power surge back in the summer that killed the speedo and tach. But i replaced them both at the same time. New tach and calibrated speedo. The first speedo died a few years ago.
I cant explain it either you just have to take my word.

I have not filled up with fuel to get a good reading on the MPG but my initial mileage is up (miles per tank). It will be tomorrow before I will fill up to know the actual numbers.

Could it be that the efi is working less (less fuel) to achieve the same MPH thus the reduced RPMs...??? I know, it makes no logical sense...but i put 400 miles on the bike this past weekend and the numbers don't lie...so to speak...plus the bike runs better than i has in several months.
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Without a change in the mechanical interface between the tire and the engine, not counting possible clutch slippage, you will always have rpms=speed. An ISCA is not going to change that.
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