I would be really interested on who has actually had a cam chain tensioner failure, what year of bike and how many miles. Also was it covered under warranty. It does not have to be a catastrophic failure can include worn beyond factory specs.
It would be interesting to see if there is a pattern that developes.
I had a 2003 Ultra with 40,000 miles that was beyond factory specs and replaced under extended warranty in 2005.
I have a 2003 ultra classic 59,000 miles bone stock never been apart. Inspect oil at every change. when i start seeing particles in the oil i will send it in for Analise like i do with my dodge Cummings oil every other change. Bike is still under ext warranty anyways so they will have to fix it. I have a kawi zx7 for when i feel the need to be a squid.
I didn't have any "failure" per se of the c.c.t but I did hear a very disturbing squeal coming from the lower end . At about 50K miles I had it looked at by a very good and reputable indy shop. The tensioner shoes were worn some but not bad for the mileage so I guess I got a smooth chain too, but the hard facing on the cams were shot which caused the squealing. I opted for the gear drive upgrade since the runout spec was well under the .003 ( mine had only .001)done deal , I'm very pleased with the work ( I was charged only $1400- 510G cams, Fueling lifters and the gear drive kit, labor included)I had the bike back in a week and its tight and torquey. Adam ,owner of Rage Racing in Channahon IL did the work. I would recommend him ,his work and his shop to anyone .
silharleyguy;1990559ended up putting eveything in new....the updated cam plate said:
$450 cam plate which includes oil pump and hydraulic tensioners
$300 cams
$120 lifters
$12 inner bearings
$100 SE push rods
$1000 worth of parts and they charged you $800 for labor? I charge 5 hours ($150 to do this job in my shop). The labor bill shouldn't have been more than $375. You need to find a good indy shop.
I got this scoot ( 2006 FLHTPI ) with 2500 miles on her, I have used synthetic Mobil 1 and Red Line since then ... 24k now. I recently changed cams from stock to Crane 300 and while I was in there I changed the inner cam bearings to torrington and simply replaced the original spring loaded cam chain tensioners with new.
The wear on the original tensioners was .010 on the inner and .016 on the outer. I could have left them in there for another 24k miles, but for $65 each, I changed them and I'll check them again in a few years. I don't use synthetic in any of my cars because, well, they are just cars and I don't love them like I do my FLH. I attribute the almost no chain tensioner wear to " a good chain " because I've heard there are " bad ones " but mostly to using real synthetic oil and it doesn't matter what brand you prefer. So if you want to save yourself some money in the long run, spend a little more on the oil changes and use real synthetic ..... IMHO .... it's the best money spent on your HD.
It seems to be a crap-shoot and it likely has a lot to do with how well and often the bike is serviced. I have seen them cut down to the metal after 15,000 miles and then some in bikes with well over 25,000 showing limited to marginal wear. I think it also has a lot to do with the condition of the cam-chain as well. Before the advent of gear-drives and hydraulic upgrade kits.....some folks were polishing the cam-chains. I also believe the roller-chain was not so bad on the shoes.
The reason I changed mine was not due to wear. When I started seeing little orange flakes in the oil-filter....that was all she wrote. I had close to 23K on this particular set. They had recently been "inspected" by my Harley wrench and he said they were fine. They had some wear, but were flaking.
+1 on the crap shoot.
Mine are fine after almost 50,000 miles, and on HD20-50 changed every 5000, as per service schedule.
The chain hasn't been touched, and I'm on stock cams. I've bought a pair of new tensioners and Torringtons, and will pull it down to change them soon.
Will report on actual wear then.
$1000 worth of parts and they charged you $800 for labor? I charge 5 hours ($150 to do this job in my shop). The labor bill shouldn't have been more than $375. You need to find a good indy shop.[/QUOTE
You won't find any indy's around here only charging $30 an hour-i think 60 plus is the norm.
2001 Wide Glide. 37K. Bike is new to me (1 week). Fluids looked normal. Cut old filter up and saw nothing. Sounds and runs strong. Changing fluids this past weekend. Decided to pop the cam cover and have a look. Front c.c.t. about 1/8 gone. Looking in at the rear one I saw a very fine line on the visible portion of the shoe. Found my dental mirror and raised the the rear tensioner. THE SHOE FELL APART AT THAT FINE LINE!!! Haven't started the repair yet. I'm trying to decide which way to go. New spring tensioners? Hydraulic up-grade? Gear driven?
If you're going to change cams, go with hydraulic upgrade with Andrews cams. I did my 2005 Road King upgrade myself at 35,000. I've got 96,000 on it now and there is almost no wear. If not going with new cams, replace old tensioner shoes, button it back up and save your money. Gears are obsolete except for radical drag bike applications.
boy this is a popular thread! I guess I'll pull my exhaust and cam cover off again this winter and check my shoes. You guys are making me paranoid! maybe its just the voices in my head, wait, quit it, no it's the ticking in my cam chest making me paranoid! I think I'm just going to buy an old shovelhead to work on to make my twin cam seem quiet.
I just had an upgrade to the hydraulic system.Cost me $1100.00 Is this a good price? My RoadGlide 2005 had 32,000 ...nothing was sounding bad, not badly worn,but just in case.
Should my oil pressure be 50 psi ?? Seems high but it is using some for the tensioner operation.
No upgrade on the cam,but it was worn and had another stock cam so installed it. Seems good..didn't change the power out though.
I have an 03 ultra (first Harley) I bought used with 5k on it 3 years ago. The previous owner used amsoil and I have been using the same (20/50). I am approaching the 20k mark
and will be opening the cam chest this weekend to inspect the tensioners. This inspection was planed for the end of riding season this year. If tensioners require replacing I will be doing the Andrews upgrade along with the inner bearings. My bigest fear is getting the front exhaust off without breaking a stud. And can you reuse the exhaust gasket or replace it? Thanks
You can reuse them, it depends whether you have them in hand when you're ready to put it back on. There're inexpensive so I always buy 2 sets so I have no excuse to replace them. Soak the studs with WD40 or similar a few times before you wrench them, they should come off easily and recoat with anti-seize when you re-install.
Took a look into the cam chest on my 03 ultra over the weekend and was quite happy with the results. Both outer and inner tensioners were barley worn. No cracks or damage of any kind could been seen. As stated before it has lived on AmsOil all its life. The plan now is to check again in 20k.
2000 Fatboy, 95 inch kit about 4 years ago.. 10K ago.. 11:1 Compression, STG IV heads Andrews 60 (chain) grind.. Heard a kind of Whirring sound.. ripped into cam case earlier today.. 3 or so specs of orange.. clean otherwise.. no trash on magnet on drain.. outer tensioner looked good, but a little galling.. Rear shoe busted in several (big) pieces, mostly intact but a touch of metal on metal.. Gonna check runout tomorrow morning, and am hoping i can go with the Andrews 60G cam (gear).. Synthetic 20/50 since break-in..
.0015 Runout on pinion.. Ordering the cams, gearset, and install kit now!! I think i dodged a bullet.. i think i'll throw an oil pump at it while i'm there..
06 RK carb model with Stage I and true duals, bought new and on Mobil 1 since new. Both tensioners at 90% good at 30K. At 42K, both still 70-80% good, but did the upgrade as I wanted a little hotter cams and the better oil pump.. New plate, oil pump, torrington inner bearings, lifters, Andrews 26N upgrade cams, sprockets, chain. Bought all parts through Zanottis except cams, got them through J&P. Bought tools to change bearings, lock gears, align oil pump, etc. from Georges' Garage, Harley, and off e-bay. By shopping around I did the complete upgrade for $1K including buying the tools. Noticeable difference in pull from a rolling start, quieter and seems to run a little cooler due to the change in timing with the new cams and roller chain setup. Haven't checked mileage yet. When I fired her up didn't even have to turn the mixture screws from the setup I was running with the stock cams. I feel like this is money well spent at this point on this motor. May upgrade to better heads later, but plan to stay with stock pistons until I need to overhaul, then going big bore and stroker crank and getting radical as I will run a newer sister in for my road trips and keep this one for short runs and fun.
My 03 Road King had 38k on it...loud metal to metal coming from the cone. Luckily I got it down to prevent any major damage but it was still a complete failure from the tensioner. All upgraded and running great.
I checked my 06 EG at 15,000 miles 2 years ago, one shoe was pitted and grooved, the other fell apart in 2 chunks, had small scar on cam , i replaced them with the S&S gear drive cams, Feuling cam plate and oil pump, new lifters and adjustable pushrods, i think i caught it just in time, new parts , new peace of mind.
My engine was totalled. Shoes went, scored the oil pump, toasted my rear crank rod, hardfaced the lifters, galled the pistons, lunched the cam lobes.
Every payday I had about $100 I could spend:
Got a welded crank from 1-Bad-Dyna $256(e-bay), fueling HP+ lifters $125, S.E. 9.8:1 Forged pop ups $115(e-bay), 2005 ported and polished heads $255(e-bay), S.E. 211 cam $95(e-bay), S.E. Billet Plate & Pump $245(e-bay), S.E. H/D Studs $35, Barrels bored $115(e-bay), Cometic motor gasket kit $95(e-bay), left & right side bearings $40(e-bay) everything all new in the box.
Had the left side case pressed onto the flywheel and cams pressed onto the cam plate at the dealer for $40. (Michael's H-D, Santa Rosa), assembled everything in my garage over about 6 mos. Broke it in on a 500 mile ride down the 101, changed the oil and came back.
The bike is a trooper, ride it everyday 75 miles to work and back. Didn't have to sell the family car this time to keep the bike running, nice!
For the second year in a row we decided to spend Thanksgiving at a friends beach house on Holden Beach NC. Bike ran great on the 340 mile trip. Got in around 5:30 PM. Wednesday. Went out yesterday morning to start it up and get gas. It fired and ran for about 2 seconds before it began making a terrible metallic knocking sound. I shut it off immediatley. Cranked it up again, the motor turns over, no knocking noise but will not start. After talking to the HD service department in Wilmington, it sounds like I might have a failed cam chain tensioner. The bike has 25,032 miles on it. I'm hoping this is all it is. Going to install the new hydraulic tensioner. Looks like the kit comes with a new oil pump.
Fortunately we took two vehicles down. Wilmington HD is picking it up in an hour. Having a hard time explaining to my wife why my 1995 FLHT went 105k miles without any problems and this FLHTCUSE has already left me stranded with 25k miles on odometer. :badmood:
Picked the bike up from Wilmington. Problem was not in the cam cavity. As a matter of fact dealer stated the tensioner was in fanatastic shape. What did they find...two fouled SE plugs. I just installed 32192-10 plugs two weeks earlier and gapped per back of box (.035.) They installed a fresh set of HD stock plugs and it was running again. They had it for over two weeks before I picked it up. Ran it everyday and did not duplicate the problem. They also checked primary chain tension. As soon as I left the dealer heading to Hold Beach I could here a ticking nosie that wasn't there before. Sounds like a lifter. Got the bike to the beach house, checked the oil via the button on the cap, only the bottom block came on and it was flashing. Pulled the dipstick and it was half below the add a quart line. It appears they didn't check the oil after putting the cam cover back on. It was nowhere near that mark when they hauled it off Thanksgiving weekend. Fortunately I had a quart and topped it off. On the ride back to Va yesterday tick is barely audible above 2700 RPM. Decelerate and its immediately very audible. Other than the noise, bike is running great. Going to look it over more this afternoon making sure I'm not hearing loose heat shields or even a front exhaust leak.