NO SOLUTION TO HEAT PROBLEM stop wasting $

[Spoker]

There is no solution to the heat problem. The engine doesn't get hot it's the exhaust. Harley's solution was to turn off the rear cylinder at idle and operating temp. That would eliminate the reason for the heat issue. Your engine doesn't get too hot, its the temperature of the gas when it leaves the engine. Apparently, HD has engineered the engine to work like this and there is nothing wrong.

Why does the engine work like this? I would suppose its to burn off the unused fuel. Keep in mind on a car with a catalytic converter, the temperature inside the converter gets to a temperature of about 1,300 degrees at the platinum. Sure in a service/parts manual Harley calls there muffler a catalytic converter, but it doesn't work like one. That is why HD has designed the engine to exhaust the gases at the temp it does.

The aftermarket parts guys are cleaning up on the consumer because everyone thinks its the air to fuel ratio or the exhaust system, one guy said it was "manufacturing tolerances" what ever that means. Bottom line, there is no solution to the temp.

[Thorns]

EPA requirements. The engine is an air pump, intake mixture of air and fuel, spark at the right time, get the exhaust out with camshafts working the duration of air into the intake and out the exhaust valves. The stock cams haven't any overlap, and the a/f mixture is very lean (lean = hot). Change the cams, intake system, exhaust system, and add a fuel management system...suddenly the engine runs cooler and with more torque and horsepower. All you have to do is add money to get this modification...your money!

Thorns

[route66paul]

Air cooled engines should not get this hot, VW went through this years ago. Just set up the engine as it would have been in the 60s or 70s and you will be fine. it needs cams with more overlap a richer tune, full flowing intake and head ports with full flow exaust. it will run much better, too.

[Bubba Neil]

Originally Posted by Spoker

There is no solution to the heat problem. The engine doesn't get hot it's the exhaust. Harley's solution was to turn off the rear cylinder at idle and operating temp. That would eliminate the reason for the heat issue. Your engine doesn't get too hot, its the temperature of the gas when it leaves the engine. Apparently, HD has engineered the engine to work like this and there is nothing wrong.

So the AFR is ok, the cams don't have anything at all to do with it..... you must be right.....

Why does the engine work like this? I would suppose its to burn off the unused fuel. Keep in mind on a car with a catalytic converter, the temperature inside the converter gets to a temperature of about 1,300 degrees at the platinum. Sure in a service/parts manual Harley calls there muffler a catalytic converter, but it doesn't work like one. That is why HD has designed the engine to exhaust the gases at the temp it does.

Works great on a water cooled engine...... with an EGR valve

The aftermarket parts guys are cleaning up on the consumer because everyone thinks its the air to fuel ratio or the exhaust system, one guy said it was "manufacturing tolerances" what ever that means. Bottom line, there is no solution to the temp.

Yep, no one else had a clue until you splained it to us.....
I'm sure your good at something, I'm just guessing air-cooled 4 stroke engine theory ain't it.....

[claydbal]

Originally Posted by Bubba Neil

Yep, no one else had clue until you splained it to us.....
I'm sure your good at something, I'm just guessing air-cooled 4 stroke engine theory ain't it.....

[Bubba Neil]

oops, am I in trouble......

[beurgard]

Negative cam overlap is the problem. I would not shut of my back cylinder, sounds like a bandaid fix. Put a good set of cams and a correct fuel management system and have it run the correct way. I have just gone through this and is my experience. My rear cylinder is 100 degrees cooler than the stock cam side by side comparison.

[R1Geezrglide]

Hmmm, I suppose, then, that all of us that spent money on cams, head work, exhaust and tuning are just hallucinating when we experience the cooler engine temps and greatly improved drivability. Oh, and those dyno sheets that would seem to back that up are printed on toilet paper...I'm glad someone pointed that out to me before I spend again.

[txhawg]

Originally Posted by beurgard

I would not shut of my back cylinder, sounds like a bandaid fix.

Kind of like the old Rodney Dangerfield line: "Hey Doctor, it hurts when I do this" Doctor: "Don't do that!"

[R-RatedCustoms]

If Spoker is on to something then explain the quick blueing of the TC 96 pipes vs the TC 88? Both run same Octane and both are not super high compression monster motors. Both have nearly the same heads, so where does the 96 get the extra energy for the heat difference?

Back a few years ago when US EPA started enforcing the 1979 statutes via CARB, there was a sudden taking notice at the dealer shows. Then we all were informed that the big boys (HD, Honda, ETC) were going to lean out the bikes so they would pass.

But a factory lean engine burns much hotter than a V-Twin made of these materials needs to burn and survive more than a few years. So as far as the aftermarket taking everyone for a ride, then I guess someone claiming such needs to show the thermal imaging of the motor at stock form vs modified "to run cooler" showing us that there is no hope from the inferno.

[Spoker]

Originally Posted by R1Geezrglide

Hmmm, I suppose, then, that all of us that spent money on cams, head work, exhaust and tuning are just hallucinating when we experience the cooler engine temps and greatly improved drivability. Oh, and those dyno sheets that would seem to back that up are printed on toilet paper...I'm glad someone pointed that out to me before I spend again.

There is nothing wrong with my engine temperature and I can ride all day long without a problem. The cam solutions make perfect sense to me, I didn't know there was a lack of overlap, but on a 2 cylinder what are the stock cam value differences between an 04 and 07?

[Spoker]

Originally Posted by R1Geezrglide

Hmmm, I suppose, then, that all of us that spent money on cams, head work, exhaust and tuning are just hallucinating when we experience the cooler engine temps and greatly improved drivability. Oh, and those dyno sheets that would seem to back that up are printed on toilet paper...I'm glad someone pointed that out to me before I spend again.

Take your dyno sheet and compare it to a Hyabusa, Goldwing or any other bike out there. I never bought any of my Harley's to go fast, to me thats not the point. There is nothing with my engine temp and there never was nor was there anything wrong with the drive-ability of my bike. If there is something wrong with your bike and it sounds like there is, you should take it to the dealer. Let your bike idle at night for an entire tank of gas and take temperature readings with an IR temp gauge on the exhaust pipe 4 inches from the engine head. I can do it to both of my current bikes, an 07 FLHTCU and 05 FXSTS. The Ultra will stay 1,300 degrees and the Springer will stay 350. Neither of the engines have had any work done to them.
I don't want to waste money getting head work done, I don' t want to port, polish, map, blueprint and so on. I don't want to increase the compression ratio to 20:1 where I have to use 116 octane sunoco race gas. I don't want to put spinner hub caps on to 26" rims. I don't need someone to tell me how slow my motorcycle is compared to a stock goldwing all I want is for the exhaust on my 07 to come close to that on my 05.

[ricoman]

A 950 degree difference between an 07 and 05 exhaust temp?
Try letting the 05 run long enough to warm up or turn the IR thermo back on.
Let's see- the exhaust gets hot but not the engine? Do I have that right?
The "no problem" clarification will enlighten all those who thought they had heat issues. Now they know better.

[msocko3]

Originally Posted by Spoker

Let your bike idle at night for an entire tank of gas and take temperature readings with an IR temp gauge on the exhaust pipe 4 inches from the engine head. I can do it to both of my current bikes, an 07 FLHTCU and 05 FXSTS. The Ultra will stay 1,300 degrees and the Springer will stay 350. Neither of the engines have had any work done to them.
I don't want to waste money getting head work done, I don' t want to port, polish, map, blueprint and so on. I don't want to increase the compression ratio to 20:1 where I have to use 116 octane sunoco race gas. I don't want to put spinner hub caps on to 26" rims. I don't need someone to tell me how slow my motorcycle is compared to a stock goldwing all I want is for the exhaust on my 07 to come close to that on my 05.

It sounds like in your head you have it all figured out, so why the waste of bandwidth. Go get yourself a set of 05 head pipes and mufflers and weld O2 sensor bungs on and see what you get once installed, it won't be what you have running around in your head. I'm also betting that if you keep setting your bikes on the shake and bake setting by idling for an entire tank your going to have an excuse to take your engine apart and repair the carnage left behind by this practice. I do know for a fact that my bike with ported heads and increased compression ratio and bigger cams is cooler than what it was when stock, my oil temperature tells me so.

[adlerx]

Damn! And I just bought 2 grand worth of parts!