No oil to top end : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

VRSCR · 07-20-2009, 10:41 AM

My 1996 Xl had a tick develop in the front cylinder top end when hot. I removed all 4 lifters and replaced them. When I restarted the bike. It had the typical top end clatter you would hear untill the lifters pumped up,but it never went away. I remove the top rocker cover and noticed it seemed a bit dry.
I tore the rocker assembly back off and removed the lifters. Then confirmed that I had oil flowing into and out of the pump. Even dropped down the pump and tore it apart for a look. The oil pump looked fine. I then removed the rubber line from the pump output to the filter housing and blew air through it to confirm no restrictions. Then I remove the spring and check ball from behind the oilf filter and blew air into the oil galley. Confirming that air was coming out in to the lifter bores. I then put everything back together. Also blowing air trought the pushrod tubes to confirm that they were not plugged up.
I then used the oil filter first removed( just to confirm that the newest filter was not defective) This time I installed my Snap-on oil pressure gauge were the oil pressure switch usually mounts. Spun the motor over with the plugs removed till my gauge showed 10psi. I then started the bike and let it run for a couple seconds till the gauge psi. came up. Still has loud ticking coming form both cylinders. We removed one of the top rocker covers and while the engine is running, there is no visible oil being pumped to the rocker area. I have tried two different new sets of lifters. I have the holes in the lifters pointed to the oil galleys in the block.The front exhaust and rear intake lifter holes are facing toward the rear of the bike and the front intake and rear exhaust holes in the lifters are pointing to the front of the bike.
I cant figure out what is going on. I have replaced the lifters and oil filter. What could be causing this????? Please help.

J ROD · 07-20-2009, 02:39 PM

It is sounding like you have a clog in the pushrods. I know from your other post the bike had run an extended period on it's side.

So what oil pressure are you seeing when the bike is running? Are the tips of the pushrods damaged? Are you able to push air thru the oil passages in the top end? Are your rockers covers vented or are they plugged? Are the lifters pumping up?

TheNowhereman · 07-20-2009, 03:36 PM

Pull the screen from the oil pump.
Clean it real good and re-install.
That should fix it. If not, you have a bad lifter.
Do the oil screen thing first, it'll save you some time and money.

VRSCR · 07-20-2009, 04:34 PM

Thank you for the replys. This bike is a XL and I do not believe it has a screen like the big twins. I AM getting pressure from the pump. I am seeing about 10-12 psi. I have tried using 2 different SETS of lifters. I blew air through the pushrods and they were fine, and no damage to the tips of them. One rocker cover is currently off and I dont see any oil when the bike is running. I tried soaking the lifters over night as well.
JRod your last question is the million dollar question,are the lifters pumping up??? I say NO. Because if they were. The top end would have oil and it would be nice and quiet again. Thanks again.

Otto · 07-20-2009, 08:35 PM

did you have the cam cover off??? if you did did you replace with the correct gasket? on xl's always lay gasket on both parts. used the correct orings on the lifter blocks??? what else did you do during this prodject

J ROD · 07-20-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VRSCR

Thank you for the replys. This bike is a XL and I do not believe it has a screen like the big twins. I AM getting pressure from the pump. I am seeing about 10-12 psi. I have tried using 2 different SETS of lifters. I blew air through the pushrods and they were fine, and no damage to the tips of them. One rocker cover is currently off and I dont see any oil when the bike is running. I tried soaking the lifters over night as well.
JRod your last question is the million dollar question,are the lifters pumping up??? I say NO. Because if they were. The top end would have oil and it would be nice and quiet again. Thanks again.

10 to 12 psi when cranking over is ok but what are you seeing when actually running. Anything below this pressure would light the oil light. I believe it's 10 psi minimum.

I just don't get the no oil in the topend. Nothing above the lifters

This would indicate an oil pump or blockage in the bottom half.

The only other thing, and I am sure you are doing it, but are you tightening everything down to spec for the rockers and adjusting the pushrods to push the plungers in a little.

I wish I was closer to help.

YankeeBob · 07-20-2009, 10:07 PM

Using stock or aftermarket lifters??

VRSCR · 07-21-2009, 09:10 AM

I am seeing over 10psi. when I run the motor. I have also tourqed everything to spec. I have had many top ends apart. This is the first time I have ever had a problem. I agree about a blockage. But what??? I have blew air through most of the system. The only thing changed is the gaskets,oil filter and lifters. I first tried using aftermarket lifters. Then when I got no oil, I went and bought a new set of stock HD lifters. I attempted to remove the cam cover. Pulled the cover slighlty away. Then bolted it back together. No lifter blocks on a XL. There is a gasket/seal at the bottom of the one piece pushrod tubes.

J ROD · 07-21-2009, 04:53 PM

Ok>>>>> this one I am not sure about but does your motor have lifter screens. Check and Clean.
The other one would be the check ball and pressure spring. Remove the check ball and clean it. Pressure spring see about changing it out or maybe shimming it.

Was the bike laying on the right side when down??

May be

....getting to the point of maybe having to tear it down. Sorry I am running out of ideas.

Hillside · 07-21-2009, 06:56 PM

How long have you ran it??
Sometimes it takes a bit to get oil up there.
Scott

VRSCR · 07-22-2009, 07:36 AM

No lifter screens on a XL
Scott, I ran it several times. Couple of those cycles I let it run till the cylinders got warm.
As of last night I have it torn back down. Rocker assemblies off, push rod and lifters are out. Cam cover off. I blew air through all passages and it is looking like the blockage is in the filter housing. Looking like it might be the spring/check ball. Although the ball is in good shape. I wonder about the spring.
Tonight I am going to replace the cam cover and turn the bike over without the lifters in. This way I can physically see were the blockage occurs.

Hillside · 07-22-2009, 10:29 AM

Please keep us posted as to the reason behind this.
Your "NOTICE" is hilarious!!!!!!

Scott

VRSCR · 07-23-2009, 08:19 AM

Installed cam cover with a new gasket. Turned the motor over with the plugs out. Oil was seen coming up to the filter housing.
I installed the filter and spring/check ball. Turned the motor over and seen oil pumping into the lifter bores.
Installed lifters and turned the motor over. Oil did come up into the center of the lifters. Not very much though.
I then installed the pushrods and rocker assembly. Turned motor oner and no oil to the top end. The oil pressure gauge would show 10psi. as I cranked the motor over,but no oil to the top.
Then I removed the oil filter and tried 3 different filters from different bikes in my shop. No improvements. I then removed the spring/checkball from behind the filter adapter. I cranked the motor over and could not get the gauge to come up at all. Zero pressure on the gauge. I am starting to beieve the pump is bad. When I took it apart it wasent scored or obviously damaged. Does any of this make any sense? Do I need a pump???

Hillside · 07-23-2009, 10:17 AM

Could there be a kink in the oil pump feed line??
Scott

VRSCR · 07-23-2009, 10:44 AM

It pissed out all over my lift. I sure could give it a closer look?