Cracked weld? : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

BOUTYM · 09-01-2007, 05:43 PM

Anyone want to venture a guess as to whether or not this looks like a cracked weld? Dealer says no. I say it looks a lot like it to me.

ftp://ftp.jrehmconsulting.net/Crack01.jpg

ftp://ftp.jrehmconsulting.net/Crack02.jpg

ftp://ftp.jrehmconsulting.net/Crack03.jpg

springer- · 09-01-2007, 06:33 PM

Tough to tell from the pictures. Does it have any depth to it? Can you stick the tip of an x-acto knife into it? Make sure it isn't just a discoloration from a rust dip. Does it wash off?

indiankris · 09-01-2007, 06:54 PM

Is this a newer model? I can't quite make out what part of the frame it is.
From the photo it sure as hell looks like a crack. Even if it is not a cracked weld, then the frame tube or a cast part is cracked. I'm only a licenced pressure pipe welder so I might not know as much as the jackass working at HD. It sounds to me like they're giving you a line of bs. I'm not sure if your bike is still under warranty, but this being a factory mechanical defect, and a safety hazard it should be covered no matter what. Unless your bike has endured heavy abuse, your dealership should fix this for free no questions asked. Do not accept anything less. If you want to post better pix, use a lamp that gives good detail and turn off your flash. If they give you a hard time, maybe contact Harley Davidson customer service.
Good luck,
Kris

YankeeBob · 09-01-2007, 07:02 PM

Would be nice if the picture had some better resolution. but it sure as helll looks like a crack.

Gerg · 09-01-2007, 08:41 PM

Tell 'em you want it in writing that it is not a cracked weld. Betcha that changes their tune.

2kflhr · 09-01-2007, 08:56 PM

Hard to tell. Most welds fail to poor absorbtion into the metal. You could try Spot Check and see what transpires.

http://magnaflux.com/spotcheck.stm

BOUTYM · 09-01-2007, 10:06 PM

I'll see if I can get better pictures of it tomorrow. I took these this evening as the sun was going down, so the flash played havoc. The area is just below and to the rear of the the battery box where the backbone joins the lower part of the frame. The round chrome piece in one of the pictures is the starter endcap so you have an idea of where this is.

I'm going to look at it more in the morning and see if I can get the sharp end of something or even a feeler gage in there. The service manager saw it and said they'd look into it, but today they said they didn't see anything wrong with it. They did comment that ALL the spokes on the front wheel are loose, which I am not buying. They said they could move the wheel independent of the hub with it on a lift, but for some reason it wasn't enough of a concern to them that they advised that I not ride it. I have the bike right now because they weren't going to start working on it yet, so I picked it up rather than leaving it in their possession where it will surely end up with more scratches and dents (they don't have a lot of room to store bikes and have been known to walk across the seats of bikes to get to the door).

This all revolves around my complaint about unusual vibration and they are in the mode right now of blaming every non-HD item on the bike (each one of which they will sell and install for you). The warranty expired the 28th of July, but the vibration and some other issues were reported within the warranty period. The service manager has conveniently forgotten that I was there and presented him with a list of issues, so that battle has just begun. I do have proof of them receiving the list.

I have the bike right now because they weren't going to start working on it yet, so I picked it up rather than leaving it in their possession where it will surely end up with more scratches and dents (they don't have a lot of room to store bikes and have been known to walk across the seats of bikes to get to the door).

Spot Check looks like the ticket if I can find it at the local welding supply.

By the way, it's an '05 Superglide.

hdmarsh77 · 09-01-2007, 10:18 PM

Check to see of your camera has a close up feature. It's a setting that allows you to take close up pictures better.

springer- · 09-01-2007, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOUTYM

......They did comment that ALL the spokes on the front wheel are loose, which I am not buying. They said they could move the wheel independent of the hub with it on a lift.....

Check the spokes. It is easy to do. Hit each spoke lightly with a small wrench (1/2" will do). They should have a ring to them. If they have a dull sound they are loose. Note it only takes a very light touch to ring the spoke.

Also if they are correct about moving the wheel independent of the hub that should be easy to check. The best way, IMO, would be to lift the front wheel off the ground. Hold the wheel near the sliders and at 180 degrees from the sliders. Then try to move the tire/rim from side to side at the top between the sliders. If you can move the rim toward or away from the sliders, the spokes are WAY too loose. If they are that loose the wheel should be trued.

BOUTYM · 09-02-2007, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springer-

Hit each spoke lightly with a small wrench (1/2" will do). They should have a ring to them.

As a preliminary test before taking the bike I flipped each spoke with my finger and all of them had the same twang to them. None had a dull sound.

I have the stock cast wheel and for the sake of argument I have a notion to put it back on and see what happens with the vibration. I personally don't think it's going to matter, but it's a good way to stop the BS about the aftermarket wheels. I'm surprised they haven't said something about the mid-glide conversion yet, unless they are so out of touch they haven't noticed it.

Even if there was the possibility they didn't have to fix anything under warranty, it would seem to me they should at least act like they will fix it and get paid for it. I can't even get that much out of them and this has been my experience with not only them, but several dealers I've been to. It's extremely frustrating to deal with these people because they just seem so disinterested.

BOUTYM · 09-02-2007, 05:45 AM

Just got a better look at it. I'm leaning more and more toward crack. It runs the entire length of the weld and is wider near the bottom. I can stick the corner of a razor blade in it near the widest point and the blade will hang there.

indiankris · 09-02-2007, 03:58 PM

It sounds like it's a crack. It also sounds like you're gonna be in for a fight
to get something done about it. You're gonna have to get more pissed at
these guys. Don't accept any of their bs. What they see is a big heavy hassle
and they don't want to do anything about it, even though by law they probably have to. Find out from the company what the dealership should cover, then maybe find out what laws are applicable in your state. Some
stealerships are scum. I'm surprised they did'nt suggest just buying a new
bike, that would fix your problem.

Kris

BOUTYM · 09-03-2007, 06:54 AM

I have a reference number from the MoCo about it and am calling them in the morning. The dealer told me yesterday they faxed the same list I sent them to the MoCo and hadn't heard back from them yet. But, if they dealer didn't verifiy a crack, the MoCo isn't going to listen to me. So, this week I'm going to take it to a few different dealers and some welders to see if they can verify that it is in fact a crack and then proceed from there.

I don't know if this is causing the wicked vibration, or it's a byproduct of it. The weld could have been weak to begin with and the vibration did it in. Not sure, but as I've said, they will blame everything else first. I personally think the thing has an ignition or fuel delivery problem, but it could be mechanical. It's just so damn hard to find anyone that gives a sh!t. What I really need to find is another dealer that is at odds with this dealer, or even a former service tech now working at another dealer.

bbrowncods · 09-03-2007, 07:16 AM

Here is a way you can maybe see if it is a crack. Put the bike on a lift and look at the weld, you should also take a picture of it. Then put it on the ground and load the bike up with a passenger and rider, and see if the crack changes.
If it is a crack, it is long enough that it has grown over time and the only way that can happen is a continuous stress. At this point it should be easy to see movement along the crack. Have both passengers stand and sit at the same time over and over. You'll see the crack move back and forth.
In the end, if it is a crack, then an entry to the NTSB safety site to report it would be prudent!

CHIPMAKER · 09-03-2007, 08:31 AM

If you can locate someone with a magnetic powder magnaflux setup, like you check cast iron cylinder heads with, it will tell you instantly.
Pidlin'