John... : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums
» Sponsors

» Insurance
Go Back   V-Twin Forum : Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Forums > Other Items of Interest > Religous Based Motorcycle Groups
New User? Register Forgot Password

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-06-2003, 01:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
Seasoned Rider
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bremond, Texas
Posts: 80
SteveE9C6 wants to know Dino or Syn?
John...

In John, we see Jesus speaking of being "born again". He is very clear on this matter.

If we look at chapter 3 and the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus we see a very straightforward direction from our Savior.

Chap 3-3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God".


Now, Jesus goes on to furthur clarify this because Nicodemus is clearly puzzled. This chapter is one of my favorites.

What does this mean to you?
__________________
God Bless You!

Steve
Central Texas
SteveE9C6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-20-2003, 04:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
Bot
IronButt
 
Bot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 1,819
Bot wants to know Dino or Syn?
Jim-

Bot here again. I'm confused, please enlighten me:

I seem to recall a conversation with you some time ago (that some people thought got a little....uhm....heated, but I think we were just having a good, healthy, serious conversation) Anyway, ONE of the things we discussed was that you seemed to have a problem with joining the CMA. As I recall (and I re-read the thread, to make sure I had it right), you said that the issue you had with the CMA was that you weren't a "born-again" Christian, and their by-laws required that. Fair enough.

But then, you posted this last week. You very eloquently explained the verses the John regarding being "born again". I'm not sure I understand. You present me with a conundrum, and I'm conundrumized!

You are really a born-again Christian, aren't you? You were trying to tie my tongue before, weren't you? <sticking finger in ribs, repeatedly>

Inquiring minds want to know!
__________________
"Always make new mistakes" - esther dyson
Bot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2003, 11:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
Seasoned Rider
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 31
windhamjk wants to know Dino or Syn?
Re: John...

Quote:
Originally posted by SteveE9C6
In John, we see Jesus speaking of being "born again". He is very clear on this matter.

If we look at chapter 3 and the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus we see a very straightforward direction from our Savior.

Chap 3-3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you,
unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God".


Now, Jesus goes on to furthur clarify this because Nicodemus is clearly puzzled. This chapter is one of my favorites.

What does this mean to you?
Yes I believe we are to follow in the Biblical example of water baptism, but I think to be born again truly points to our repentance of sins, acceptance of the gift of salvation and our bowing to Jesus as Lord.

For are we not called children of God? Doesn't the Bible say we are joint-heirs with Christ the saviour? Well how can we come into the gifts of the Father?

There is but one way to the Father and that is through his son Christ Jesus. How do we go through Jesus? Well simply we confess our sins, seek repentance, and accept the gift. This is what I look to as being born again. Because until we repent we are not saved, right?

So when we do repent we become His children. So that is what I consider being born again.
__________________
Jon
windhamjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 08:10 AM   #4 (permalink)
Bot
IronButt
 
Bot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 1,819
Bot wants to know Dino or Syn?
Jim,

I hate to tell you this, but you sound like you are a "born again" Christian. IMO, water baptism is important. We should strive to do it, it is a public decry of our faith (btw- I have been baptised). BUT, it isn't absolutely required to make heaven. I only say that because we have a fine example: The thief on the cross was promised that "...this day, you will join me in paradise".

Also, I think we can agree on this statement: Sometimes, religion gets in the way of our relationship with Jesus. I have never read anywhere in the Bible that you must be a (pick a sect) to enter into His kingdom. In fact, it is my belief, based on Jesus' admonitions of the Pharasees, that religion unto itself can (and, in many cases IS) be a dangerous thing.

Anyway, back to the CMA. The only issue you seemed to have with the CMA appears to me to be a non-issue. Perhaps, your experience with your local chapter wasn't a good one (?). Heck, I have no idea what your experience with CMA is, other than reading their by-laws. Hopefully, you didn't have a bad experience with a local chapter ("you must a <insert denomination> to be in our chapter", or "you must belong to this congregation to be in our chapter".) I do know THAT is not the edict of the CMA at large.

Being born again, as Jon (windhamjk) pointed out, is not "some sort of religious experience" as you said. It IS: simply repenting of our sins to God, and accepting Jesus Christ as our personal saviour. Couldn't be simpler. The words are merely semantics, Christianese, if you will.

You are absolutely correct, the message is really a simple one, and we Believers tend to muddy it up with religion and semantics, confusing non-believers (God help us) in the meantime.

It is exactly this reason why I joined CMA, oddly enough. I've been going to church, Sunday school for a long time. Many "old saints" at church go on about reading a book on grace, or reading a book on patience, etc. etc. Sometimes I wanna scream. I want to reach the lost. I've been looking for a long time for a way to "reach" them. I've gone door to door, (definately NOT my calling) I've tried teaching young 'uns at Sunday school (again, not my gift). The clincher was a really rather recent event.... Pull up a chair....

Recently, my wife and I attended a "Biker Sunday" rally in Columbus OH. We went with several CMA members in our group, including Skin and his wife. It was a wonderful experience, 3K bikes, 10K people, (mostly believers, I think) speakers included Barry Mayson and Robert Pickle. BM is an ex-Hells Angel, RP and ex-biker (H-A, not sure) and drug addict. They preached the Word, we sang, we worshipped together, we had a very nice time. I came away from there very lifted up, "high", if you will.

OTOH, Three CMA members from our chapter went to "Little Sturgis" in southern KY (Sturgis, KY, in fact) the same w/e. Don't know if you're familiar with LS, but it is an event on put on and managed by the Hells Angels. Really, anything goes down there, anything. They came back with the story of not one, but of two salvations. I wanna be a part of that. That is what the CMA is really about, when you put the rubber to the road. Now of course, not everyone (even CMAers) should go to an event like that... I probably wasn't ready for it yet, I don't know. But I can tell you this, I'll be there next year, with a very simple message: ~Jesus loves bikers, too.~ You won't find me discussing with a 1%er whether they should be sprinkled or dunked, LOL. Just, "have cold water, in Jesus' name, have a nice day."

~In Christ, Bot
__________________
"Always make new mistakes" - esther dyson
Bot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 10:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
Ridin' with the King
 
frankencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,351
frankencat wants to know Dino or Syn?
Fellow bikers - Christ came so that we could live! He did not come to condemn the world but to offer salvation, love, and forgiveness. If you need salvation, love, forgivess, and restoration and accept this "offer" by faith and confesssion in the Lord Jesus Christ then YOU ARE SAVED!!!

The Bible says ...

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." --Revelation 3:20 (NIV)

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." --John 1:12 (NIV)

"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." --Romans 10:9 (NIV)

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ - When we "bicker" amongst ourselves we are showing the world that we are not on the same page. Besides backslidden believers who live a life that is "unholy" and contrary to what we/they preach, this is the biggest thing that drives people away from Christianity. A truly evil work if there ever was one.

A house divided will not stand and a man of 2 minds is unstable in all of his ways. We need to come together and love each other with the love of Christ. It's the goodness of God that leads us to salvation and it's the love of God that makes it possible. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you would like to know more about this you can start by going to http://www.billygraham.org/believe/stepsToPeace.asp and reading the information on the web page. You can also contact me via email and I will be glad to answer any question you may have about this.

Blessings in the name that is above all names - JESUS.
Frank Silano
<><
__________________
Higher Ground Band
Rockin' for Jesus!
<><

Last edited by frankencat; 08-21-2003 at 10:11 AM.
frankencat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 01:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
Bot
IronButt
 
Bot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 1,819
Bot wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally posted by frankencat
...When we "bicker" amongst ourselves we are showing the world that we are not on the same page. <><
Oh, for cryin' out LOUD! Frank, show me the bickering. Why is it that whenever I talk to Jim, somebody comes in the middle of the talk and accuses me/us of bickering?

Here is the history:
1. I asked (a long time ago) if Jim was a CMA member
2. He said no, he didn't think he was a born again Christian, as required by the CMA by-laws. (I gotta respect that he actually read and honored them, BTW)
3. We discussed, assuming we agreed on the terminology of born-again.
4. We were accused of turning non-believers off with our bickering.
5. Neither one of us thought we were bickering, we both said as much.
6. time passes, no activity, until this thread.
7. I asked Jim why he thought he wasn't "born again", based on his post, this thread, which not only included scripture, but had a pretty good explaination of that scripture, about, of all subjects, being born-again.
8. I moved the conversation to the CMA, whereas, again, with the bickering acuasations.

Nowhere did either of call each other names, nor did we disagree with each other, really. We HAVE been learning about each other, sorta like we were sitting down in a coffee house, having a nice conversation, from one believer (perhaps from a differing denomination) to another. Only thing is, his coffee-house is in Iowa somewhere, and mine happens to be in Kentucky.

Most everyone here seems to agree on one thing.... semantics, religious rites/rules, "holy arguements" etc. will only turn off a non-believer. I agree with that. HOWEVER, if 2 beleivers cannot discuss their beliefs with each other, in an orderly, adult fashion, in a labeled, Christian Forum, where then? I most certainly agree that these sort of conversations should not be held in, say the general forums, where a high percentage of readers may not be believers.

Additionally, Frank, if you were to re-read our posts, we were discussing the merits of the CMA, not whether or not Jim or I were going to Heaven or Hell, because of some silly belief that turning around 3 times while coughing in church will "save us". (please pardon the sarcasm)

OK, I'm calmer now.... Aside from that, I actually DO agree with your post, in principle. Just not with the part that we were bickering. Sometimes, since I tend to have a rather big sense of humor, I will say something tongue in cheek. Many believers are so serious, they think I am bellyachin' or bickering. But, I KNOW God has a sense of humor, I'm reminded of His humor every time I look in the mirror.

Really, I am not angry or bitter. But please, don't jump to any conclusions about a conversation that, from what I've seen, you've not been a party to.

~In Christ, Bot
__________________
"Always make new mistakes" - esther dyson
Bot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 02:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 186
Skin wants to know Dino or Syn?
We love people from Kentucky......just like we love people from Iowa
__________________
Baggers forever
Skin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 02:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
Bot
IronButt
 
Bot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 1,819
Bot wants to know Dino or Syn?
And Ohio too, Skin. Don't know whut came over me. Long hours this week, I guess.
__________________
"Always make new mistakes" - esther dyson
Bot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 02:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 186
Skin wants to know Dino or Syn?
Bot, call me tonight at the house. Want to see what you and the family and Jim and his boy are doing saturday night. We have some friends and their boys coming down for a visit saturday night and wanted to have a night of fellowship and food for them. They are from Cambridge, Oh and are also going to church with us Sunday morning then they'll head for home so we can be at Biker Church sunday night. You got our phone #?
__________________
Baggers forever
Skin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 02:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
Road Captain
 
hogg831's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 6,633
hogg831 wants to know Dino or Syn?
Bot,
Maybe I shouldn't jump in here....but I am anyway I for one enjoy the exchange between Jim and you. Don't be discouraged, the exchange is needed. There are quite a few folks who don't post in this section of the site, but do visit often. It is through the dialogue that you two are having that will answer the question the wasn't asked.

It does serve a useful purpose, the Word will not return void.........
__________________
Frank



Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer are purely coincidental. Any resemblance between the above and my own views is non-deterministic. The question of the existence of views in the absence of anyone to hold them is left as an exercise for the reader. The question of the existence of the reader is left as an exercise for the second god coefficient.



Fun is a good thing, whining sucks!
hogg831 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 03:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
Bot
IronButt
 
Bot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 1,819
Bot wants to know Dino or Syn?
Skin- Got your number. We'll call ya tonight.

Hogg831- Thanks for the encouragement. Jim and I are just having a good time, talking about what is important to us.

Jim- by the time to get back from your weekend, this thread is liable to be pretty full.... hehe.
__________________
"Always make new mistakes" - esther dyson
Bot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2003, 08:03 PM   #12 (permalink)
Ridin' with the King
 
frankencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,351
frankencat wants to know Dino or Syn?
Bot, cool out bro! I wasn't accusing you of anything, I was just commenting on "bickering" amongst Christians in general and I thought I would add some basic truth to the thread for those who are interested and would like to accept Christ.

Peace out.

Frank
<><
__________________
Higher Ground Band
Rockin' for Jesus!
<><

Last edited by frankencat; 08-21-2003 at 08:10 PM.
frankencat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2003, 02:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 427
defibvt wants to know Dino or Syn?
Hey, good open discussion is needed. The one thing that we all agree upon is that Christ loves us and died for our sins. Open discussion can raise questions with non-believers. This can lead to bringing them to know Christ. Whether you believe it or not you are planting seeds.

I like everyone I enjoy sarcasm and I also have a good sense of humor. All I ask is that you, this means everyone, think before you post. Many people including non-believers read this forum section.

I have not and will not censor anything from this forum section. This is my promise to anybody who posts. I will politely ask in a PM to either censor or delete your post. I am not asking that now. Keep up the GREAT conversation. It only shows that even though we are Christians we are allowed to question each other and seek answers. This is the exact opposite of a cult which many people accuse Christians of being a part of these days.
__________________
Riding for the Son!
defibvt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2003, 07:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
Bot
IronButt
 
Bot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 1,819
Bot wants to know Dino or Syn?
If there is a problem, what is the solution, then?

Frankencat-

I apologize for my tone. It was probably a little strong (ok, it WAS strong). However, if one makes a "general statement" in the middle of a discussion, others can only assume there is a connection to the thread. Again, I was frustrated, overworked, and, just plain rude, no excuses. I apologize again.

defibvt- Thanks for your comments, actually were encouraging. Especially the part about rooting out cults, I hadn't thought of it in those terms.

How can we carry on serious discussions in this thread, without sounding all "mushy and yucky" and touchy feely? I've been involved in two serious conversations, and have been slammed both times. I really want to be able to continue in this venue, but at the same time, I am not interested in "alienating" non-believers.

We could go to PM, but that is counterproductive, would you agree? I am seeking an honest solution here. I would like to have the freedom to express my questions, concerns, opinions without worrying about offending anyone. Please, believers, and I mean no ill-thoughts, lets thicken up our hides a little. If you disagree, great, express where you disagree. But please don't play the "shame game".

I really don't think the seekers are so ignorant as to miss the points of the conversation. We must assume that the seekers reading this thread, are at least as intelligent as most of the posters in the other forums. By and large, I've experienced that those guys and gals are pretty bright. I also think that seekers appreciate from believers the assumption of intelligence. Isn't that a common courtesy anywhere, not just amongst believers?

I think I've anwered my own question:
I will continue to post and respond and ask questions in as thoughtful and intelligent ways as I know how (admittedly, I'm not always either). Lets be BOLD. You can bet your faith Jesus was bold. He was controversial. He assumed intelligence from seekers. He expected them to make their own decisions, too, we have a choice to believe Him or not. Being bold is not just slapping a Jesus Saves bumper sticker on and driving through "the hood" (I'm gonna get it for that, I'm sure). Being bold is demanding the best from our fellow believers. If I am not personally challenged in my faith, I will wither and die. I think most of us are the same way.

Dischord amongst believers is another thing altogether. Sometimes, there may be a fine line. I sometimes think we must approach that line, though. I've seen people leave the church because they disagree with others on an amoral issue. That is dischord. That DOES hurt the faith. But we must be able to discuss moral issues boldly. A fine example of that would be the gay minister thread. If we play all nice and mushy all the time, we will become "morally bankrupt", as was so eloquently stated in that thread.

Folks, I gotta get to work. I love you all in Christ. ~Bot
__________________
"Always make new mistakes" - esther dyson
Bot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2003, 08:52 AM   #15 (permalink)
Ridin' with the King
 
frankencat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Posts: 1,351
frankencat wants to know Dino or Syn?
"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." 1 Peter 3:15
__________________
Higher Ground Band
Rockin' for Jesus!
<><
frankencat is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
(C)2001-2012 V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved (C)2001- V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum