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Old 06-06-2017, 10:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
IronButt
 
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Global warming? Really?

it seems Antarctica is building up ice faster than it is losing it. Losing on the west side, big f-ing icebergs, but gaining on the east side.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...er-than-losses
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Careful, the religion of Man Made Global Warming (Cooling, Climate Change, Climate Disorder, Climate Weirding) doesn't like their dogmas to be questioned by us peon, know-nothing, non-scientist types. Settled science ya know.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RGRider View Post
Careful, the religion of Man Made Global Warming (Cooling, Climate Change, Climate Disorder, Climate Weirding) doesn't like their dogmas to be questioned by us peon, know-nothing, non-scientist types. Settled science ya know.
They don't even like it when actual scientists question them.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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twood71 is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Yea they smart peoples, What have I heard over the years? coffee causes strokes, no wait coffee doesn't cause strokes, no wait coffee is healthy for the heart, no wait coffee gives erections. ALL LIES!
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Settertude is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Weather patterns change for a bunch of reasons---any half smart observer who actually thinks a bit can figure it out.
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Any fool can tell the the world is warming. It's just a mater of looking at historical temperature readings. The why is where the doubt is.

But if you look at the record, you'll see that it started warming when less than a billion humans were burning fuel to cook, stay warm, harden clay and smelt a little copper. So from that you can extrapolate that humans are not completely the blame, or that there needs to be less than a billion humans. Neither of those is going to get any press.

And at the moment it's all about carbon. And various plans to tax it in the west so as to pay for reductions in the third world. Fact is that carbon is just the easy one to measure. Methane and water vapor contribute more to warming per ton than carbon.

And as the US stepped away from the Paris deal, a lot of press was given to India and China stepping in to take leadership roles. Fact is the US has been reducing it's carbon foot print while China, India, and Germany have been increasing the amount of carbon they dump into the atmosphere.

Here's another truth that wont make the news. Agriculture is the single largest producer of carbon emissions. Second only to natural events in producing methane. People cant stop eating, so agriculture can't be touched. If it continues at it's current pace, the world continues to warm.

So what do we do. The smart money would be on adapting until technology advance enough to get clear of it.

To buy time we could cut emissions. But to make a difference it would mean taking a big hit to our lifestyles. Next day delivery, done. Try once a month. Recreational travel, done. Work related only. All the high way money would go into mass transit, and if you work in the city, you'll need to move there. AC in the summer, nope. Heat in the winter, ya, set to about 55f. The airline industry would be done. Tourism industry done. Professional sports, done. Big data storage for public use, done. Basically if we cut everything in life that we don't need to live, we only buy some time. And it may be too late for that already. I'll get back to that.

Or we could start halving the population each generation. One woman one child, no exceptions. Ya I hear you, good luck with that.

On the too late part. We may have already killed the oceans. The carbon load already in the atmosphere may be more than enough to insure it. As the ocean absorbs carbon it becomes acidic. At a certain PH level, the organisms that absorb carbon from the water all die. Then the acidification runs away and you get a repeat of past extinction events. O2 tanks temperatures spike and 8 billion people get to starve to death.

So until you are ready to talk about doing without, without everything you don't need to live, there will be no progress. Until you are ready to start talking about culling population, there is no way out of this. And even then, with lead times being what they are when dealing with world events, it's probably already 50 years too late.

Example. Some 10's of years ago we decided that R12 was bad for the atmosphere, so we phased it out. Took more than a decade for the west to get rid of it. Today, the third world produces more R12 than the wast was producing in 1975. Mostly in India and China. The same nations that have stated their intent to lead us out of this crisis.

Climate protection as it exists today is little more than socialism. Taking from them that have to enrich them that don't.

But no one wants to take the hard steps that need to be taken.
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermodyne View Post
Any fool can tell the the world is warming. It's just a mater of looking at historical temperature readings. The why is where the doubt is.

But if you look at the record, you'll see that it started warming when less than a billion humans were burning fuel to cook, stay warm, harden clay and smelt a little copper. So from that you can extrapolate that humans are not completely the blame, or that there needs to be less than a billion humans. Neither of those is going to get any press.

And at the moment it's all about carbon. And various plans to tax it in the west so as to pay for reductions in the third world. Fact is that carbon is just the easy one to measure. Methane and water vapor contribute more to warming per ton than carbon.

And as the US stepped away from the Paris deal, a lot of press was given to India and China stepping in to take leadership roles. Fact is the US has been reducing it's carbon foot print while China, India, and Germany have been increasing the amount of carbon they dump into the atmosphere.

Here's another truth that wont make the news. Agriculture is the single largest producer of carbon emissions. Second only to natural events in producing methane. People cant stop eating, so agriculture can't be touched. If it continues at it's current pace, the world continues to warm.

So what do we do. The smart money would be on adapting until technology advance enough to get clear of it.

To buy time we could cut emissions. But to make a difference it would mean taking a big hit to our lifestyles. Next day delivery, done. Try once a month. Recreational travel, done. Work related only. All the high way money would go into mass transit, and if you work in the city, you'll need to move there. AC in the summer, nope. Heat in the winter, ya, set to about 55f. The airline industry would be done. Tourism industry done. Professional sports, done. Big data storage for public use, done. Basically if we cut everything in life that we don't need to live, we only buy some time. And it may be too late for that already. I'll get back to that.

Or we could start halving the population each generation. One woman one child, no exceptions. Ya I hear you, good luck with that.

On the too late part. We may have already killed the oceans. The carbon load already in the atmosphere may be more than enough to insure it. As the ocean absorbs carbon it becomes acidic. At a certain PH level, the organisms that absorb carbon from the water all die. Then the acidification runs away and you get a repeat of past extinction events. O2 tanks temperatures spike and 8 billion people get to starve to death.

So until you are ready to talk about doing without, without everything you don't need to live, there will be no progress. Until you are ready to start talking about culling population, there is no way out of this. And even then, with lead times being what they are when dealing with world events, it's probably already 50 years too late.

Example. Some 10's of years ago we decided that R12 was bad for the atmosphere, so we phased it out. Took more than a decade for the west to get rid of it. Today, the third world produces more R12 than the wast was producing in 1975. Mostly in India and China. The same nations that have stated their intent to lead us out of this crisis.

Climate protection as it exists today is little more than socialism. Taking from them that have to enrich them that don't.

But no one wants to take the hard steps that need to be taken.
The "why" and the "how much" (.17 rise in 100 years... not going to get too worked up...) have never been answered and doubtless ever will. Given the $$ at stake, plethora of self-serving hyperbole and lack of impartial, concrete science - why get worked up?

Much more fun trolling climate fanatics and green idiots.
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FXDRYDR View Post
The "why" and the "how much" (.17 rise in 100 years... not going to get too worked up...) have never been answered and doubtless ever will. Given the $$ at stake, plethora of self-serving hyperbole and lack of impartial, concrete science - why get worked up?

Much more fun trolling climate fanatics and green idiots.
Don't get to excited about that mean temperature number. The largest heat sink on the planet is the ocean. And it has probably warmed 5 times as much as the atmosphere.
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's all one big distraction to distract from the real issue ... corporations not just abnegating their responsibilities for their externalities ... but a system that profits, and can pretty much only do so, by doing so.

It's not about this gas or that gas, or this 0.1% or that 0.1% ... they, the corporations, all their paid shills and all the morons who get swept along by them, want to keep the discussion - and the planet - choked by poisoning discussion - and the planet - in futile arguments for as long as possible in order to push their cost onto some other person, group, or entity; thereby creating what they call a "profit".

A "profit" as in, "something they did not have to pay for but should have, and someone else (we) did".


The corporations love to leave these "external costs" for others to pay, those who do not benefit from the transaction, or do not even know they are paying it, or know about the cost but don’t have any choice but to pay.

Whether it's dumping a gas, dumping waste, irreversibly destroying eco-systems, ethnically cleansing an indigenous people ... even wrecking species' DNA ... they demand the right to do it and make their money from doing it.

What we are talking about, what they are doing is, not even "capitalism" it is just an even more exaggerated version of old fashioned robber barony.

Corporations should be held to internalize *all* externalities, including environmental damage, and to process their own ****, not make us pay for it to be done, e.g.

"You dump 10 million tons of gas, you remove it; you dump 10 million plastic bags, you pay to have them removed and processed safely. You cut a tree down, you replace it 'like for like'.

You did not pay for it to be made in the first place, why should we have to pay just so you profit"?
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermodyne View Post
Don't get to excited about that mean temperature number. The largest heat sink on the planet is the ocean. And it has probably warmed 5 times as much as the atmosphere.
Not to mention that the technologies for measuring temperatures have changed significantly (particularly in reference to ocean temps) to the point it's not clear we are even able to accurately determine the real magnitude of any changes beyond the last century (maybe even the last few decades).
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Settertude is reading this now saying WTF is this?
I don't believe in the integrity of measurement technique, locations for the same and certainly not the conclusions of the so called, community.
Add the non-sensical histrionics to the mix and its like a poorly scripted novella.

Science is looking for a building sized mosaic while staring at a pixel of that mosaic and then making agenda driven conclusions based on poor observations of that pixel.

The resulting outbursts are puerile.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:25 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Willyone is reading this now saying WTF is this? Willyone is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Mother earth is getting old....menopause.... she has warmed up and cooled down numerous times over many millions of years and she will continue to do so until we blow her and/or ourselves up.

I believe it really could be just that simple.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyone View Post
Mother earth is getting old....menopause.... she has warmed up and cooled down numerous times over many millions of years and she will continue to do so until we blow her and/or ourselves up.

I believe it really could be just that simple.
The same forces would still be in play after said 'blow-up'.
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You don't really think a little thing like a "dry county" can stop a bunch of cajuns from finding a bar, do you?
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Willyone is reading this now saying WTF is this? Willyone is reading this now saying WTF is this?
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Originally Posted by Settertude View Post
The same forces would still be in play after said 'blow-up'.
Could be but a blow up sure as hell would end the argument.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willyone View Post
Mother earth is getting old....menopause.... she has warmed up and cooled down numerous times over many millions of years and she will continue to do so until we blow her and/or ourselves up.

I believe it really could be just that simple.
Yup.:thumbsup
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