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Old 05-15-2017, 05:47 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RGRider View Post
Fixed it for ya.
you are independently wealthy, never had an accident , and your children never got sick.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:43 PM   #107 (permalink)
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you are independently wealthy, never had an accident , and your children never got sick.
Hardly. Never grossed over 125k in my life, and business expenses probably we're over half of that. But I do what I do, and like what I do. That's worth something.
I've had my share of illness and accidents, never thought to ask someone else to pay for it.
My son has been fighting cancer for the past 9 years or so, 2 bone marrow transplant, countless Chemo treatments, the whole deal. Don't even think about saying that I don't know or care.

Now here's the deal. You think society has an obligation to care for people. I tend to agree, to this point, that my obligation is voluntary, not compulsory. The government is, as GW stated, FORCE. Government sticks a gun in your face and takes what it determines is its share of what you have. Government has a monopoly on the use of force. Consider carefully how you want that force directed.

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Old 05-19-2017, 05:32 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by norm9278 View Post
Hardly. Never grossed over 125k in my life, and business expenses probably we're over half of that. But I do what I do, and like what I do. That's worth something.
I've had my share of illness and accidents, never thought to ask someone else to pay for it.
My son has been fighting cancer for the past 9 years or so, 2 bone marrow transplant, countless Chemo treatments, the whole deal. Don't even think about saying that I don't know or care.

Now here's the deal. You think society has an obligation to care for people. I tend to agree, to this point, that my obligation is voluntary, not compulsory. The government is, as GW stated, FORCE. Government sticks a gun in your face and takes what it determines is its share of what you have. Government has a monopoly on the use of force. Consider carefully how you want that force directed.
Excellent post! Thank you.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:52 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 2015RK View Post
Mandatory self investing. I like that. But what about the legitimately unemployed? You know, due to robotics and cheap foreign labor? People with disabilities, tough luck? See, an advanced society has to work out something to take care of the unfortunate, not to be confused with the lazy.

Do you know anyone with a trade or skill who is lazy or were they laid off?
Whats your point? Who are you now gonna use to justify yourself as the wise one on this subject? It's sickening

Hell let me answer your question, Yes I know about 30 people in my association circle with skills that got laid off by 2008. They continued to look for jobs and some settled for lower pay, some took 2 jobs, I know one guy who just bought a house and was laid off from Black Beauty Coal mine from over 7 years there with a bright future, I let you figure out why he was laid off.

Wanna guess if unemployment helped him? Government assistance help him? Take a guess at those answers. After you judge and remark how the system did not fail him from the man he voted for in office, Go by some flowers and put it at his grave site in OaK Hill cemetery in Evansville In. I can get you a map if needed. Then take a guess why this healthy man with kids and wife, house just bought, and future he was looking at suddenly ended it.

The system claimed he did not qualify for assistance, wow yea correct, explain that. Oh and as he went thru the holidays dealing with handouts that was absolutely embarrassing this good man, Going to food pantry handouts and seeing all they had was junk food, going thru winter with sick kids off and on, helping him to move out at his foreclosed home, lending him a car to go look for employment while his wife used the only paid off car to for her job.

He decided his family was better off with out him. suicide. So can a man really get that low in life from a happy hopeful future from?

When I owned 8 apartment rentals in 1997-98 on Parriet street in Evansville IN. ( can get that map if needed) not one of the section 8 renters ever decided that they tried everything and still failed and made a choice to leave this world. NOPE they all had their rents paid in full to me by the program, electric was paid, they always waited for their checks once a month, water was included in thier rent, out of 8 renters I had. All were under the age of 36, yes 36 was my oldest renter and he was not retired. I had some offer to cut the grass for extra money, Had a few take out the window air units before winter. They all seemed physically fit, not handicapped. Had one want a ride from me to the dry cleaners to get his suits? Had one that kept aluminum foil over his back bedroom and slept on the couch, wonder why? Never could evict trouble makers that started fights or let 5 more people live with them. They tore off the wall paper in the hallways, tore off the screen doors all the time, tore off the banister and I always was required to replace these things at my cost. That's why my rental venture was only one year.

The system is broke very very badly! They help those that wanna sleep in and stay up all night, they don't help those who just lost their job, they must first give up what they worked for and move into the slum areas to get help.

PUKE!
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:55 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015RK View Post
I understand what conservatives want. I do not want a communist social system. For example, retirement age in Greece is 55 with guaranteed living income from the government after that. I think something like 50% of employed Greeks work for the government. That is fckd up. And, of course, you know that in the Scandinavian countries they have free mass transit, free education, free medical care and a 50% income tax rate. In surveys, the Scandinavian people are rated the happiest, most stress free in the world. There are no restrictions on salary, you can have the best income you can get with your career and free enterprise is going full blast.

So, getting back to the opener, I understand what conservatives want. Why do you want us to be the only 1st world country in the world not to have the social assistance of health care and social security and needed welfare? Social Security is needed for the lower income people who make enough to live on without welfare but not enough left over to invest for retirement. You rich people can invest all you want. I keep hearing "Canada and England are going broke". They have been doing this since WW2 and nothing there has crashed. Look at the national debt in the USA. Do you think, at this point, another $ trillion would make any difference? The social programs ensure that no one has to starve or die from poverty. There are no restrictions, other than the EPA, OHSA, etc., on free enterprise. You can still have big screen TVs and swimming pools and the poor people will not.
I pay, on average, about $1200 per month to the IRS just for Social Security and Medicare taxes. That is $14400 per year.

The IRS only "allows" me to contribute $5500 per year to my Individual Retirement Account.

Do your own math, but in my opinion, if I were "allowed" to save all of that for my own retirement, I would never need to be dependent upon those "social programs". That equates to forced dependence. Not to mention, if someone has determined that $5500/year is enough for me to save for retirement, then why must I pay nearly 3 times that much for other people's retirement?

The CDC says that over 70% of adults in this country are overweight. That makes it seem far-fetched for me to believe that people starving to death here is a big problem.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:48 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015RK View Post
Mandatory self investing. I like that. But what about the legitimately unemployed? You know, due to robotics and cheap foreign labor? People with disabilities, tough luck? See, an advanced society has to work out something to take care of the unfortunate, not to be confused with the lazy.

Do you know anyone with a trade or skill who is lazy or were they laid off?
Who gets to decide who is lazy, or who is genuinely disabled? If you're looking for an opportunity for corruption, there it is. Where are the unicorns that are going to make these determinations? Do you see anyone in government who is not corrupt? Hillary? Trump? Obama? Even our much bally hooed government "workers" seem to have time to surf the Internet for porn and gambling at our expense, and give you an attitude if you want them to actually do their job.

Allow me to educate you on your assertion that government isn't in the way of business (except EPA).
My little one man "business" pays, 2016 off the top of my head;
$ 1900 Apportion Registration
$ 550 Heavy Hwy Use Tax
$ 8217 Fuel Tax
$11000 Federal Income Tax
$ 3600 SS Tax
$ 3600 State Sales tax

No effect on free Enterprise?
Not my "Fair Share"?
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:57 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norm9278 View Post
Who gets to decide who is lazy, or who is genuinely disabled? If you're looking for an opportunity for corruption, there it is. Where are the unicorns that are going to make these determinations? Do you see anyone in government who is not corrupt? Hillary? Trump? Obama? Even our much bally hooed government "workers" seem to have time to surf the Internet for porn and gambling at our expense, and give you an attitude if you want them to actually do their job.

Allow me to educate you on your assertion that government isn't in the way of business (except EPA).
My little one man "business" pays, 2016 off the top of my head;
$ 1900 Apportion Registration
$ 550 Heavy Hwy Use Tax
$ 8217 Fuel Tax
$11000 Federal Income Tax
$ 3600 SS Tax
$ 3600 State Sales tax

No effect on free Enterprise?
Not my "Fair Share"?
Being in the same business as you... I can say it would be just unimaginable to these people who insist govt isn't a problem how many jurisdictions/agencies even just a sole proprietor has to deal with.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:52 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Being in the same business as you... I can say it would be just unimaginable to these people who insist govt isn't a problem how many jurisdictions/agencies even just a sole proprietor has to deal with.
lol exactly, When the energy bill came along they forced the window industry(that I'm in) to have better thermal values, it had the window industry scrambling to come up with a window that could meet these new values by 2012, they went up each year or in this case lower numbers each year. PPG came along with soft coat low-e, which basically pours the silver on the glass. As one needs to know you have to deflect the sun rays away right to have better thermal control.

4 years later by 2012 or 2013 we are hit with complaints from the subdivisions that our windows are melting the siding on the houses next to them as we predicted!

Yea the Gov knows windows
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:29 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Yea the Gov knows windows
The govt told PPG how to coat their windows?
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:35 PM   #115 (permalink)
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The govt told PPG how to coat their windows?
nope, the govt decided we needed better windows
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:49 PM   #116 (permalink)
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nope, the govt decided we needed better windows
So they set a standard and PPG implemented a poor solution?
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:01 PM   #117 (permalink)
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So they set a standard and PPG implemented a poor solution?
Yea, the Govt set an impossible standard and FORCED business to comply. They don't care that the technology does not exist, just do it. Same thing with EPA regulations on diesel trucks. Zero particulate emissions. Put a filter on the exhaust, yeah, that'll work. Or EGR valve. How well would you function with your own feces being shoved down your pipe? Technology doesn't exist, tough, just do it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:22 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Yea, the Govt set an impossible standard and FORCED business to comply.
Do you have any links on this?

All I find are the LEED and EnergyStar programs, both of which are voluntary.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:18 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Do you have any links on this?

All I find are the LEED and EnergyStar programs, both of which are voluntary.
Yeah, I gotta link. Talk to my mechanic, or anyone who own a 2005 or newer tractor. I just dropped $3500 on EGR repairs, nothing but EPA mandated emissions cr@p. Several fellow OO's have been put out of business and lost their entire investment due to EPA mandated emissions repairs. Hows an $11000 repair bill sound? Not unusual for a newer truck. Who pays for that in the end? You do. A link? Try CAFE standards. Look up why Caterpillar no longer builds engines for highway use. Why do you think a plain vanilla car costs $30000 these days, when you could buy a 1969 Mach I Mustang loaded for around $4000 ?

Last edited by norm9278; 05-19-2017 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:20 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by norm9278 View Post
Yeah, I gotta link. Talk to my mechanic, or anyone who own a 2005 or newer tractor. I just dropped $3500 on EGR repairs, nothing but EPA mandated emissions cr@p. Several fellow OO's have been put out of business and lost their entire investment due to EPA mandated emissions repairs. Hows an $11000 repair bill sound? Not unusual for a newer truck. Who pays for that in the end? You do.
I'm referring to the mandate you mentioned on the windows.
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