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Old 04-20-2017, 05:40 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I saw an episode on what South Korea does for North Korean defectors. It's pretty involved and a lot of the defectors have a very hard time adjusting. There's no way they could do that for an entire nation. It would take a ton of commitment by the international community to help South Korea in the event that population landed in their lap. Their economy would be crushed for a very long time.
LOL, yeah. their worry may have been justified.

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Old 04-20-2017, 05:58 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Dad was a Marine in Korea, he got out in '53 after the armistice. What he saw while there was enough that when I told him I was enlisting for 'Nam he made me promise not to go into the Marines, I ended up in the Army, and as things turned out Germany.

I am surprised that China has not seen NK as the next low cost manufacturing base. They could set up textile as an example, pay peanuts, and the NK people would benefit GREATLY.

See from my point of view the way to beat any Communist power is through one from of capitalism or another. Now Vlad and company have taken on a very dark version of it, but the Chinese are a lot closer to the US version then most people think.

I work for a Swiss company and we have a division doing business in China and the regular lay person there, have the same hopes and dreams we do. A steady job, and a better life for their kids. The just have a bit of Mao's teachings to get past.

I say give them NK in exchange for them getting the nukes out of there!
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:04 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Dad was a Marine in Korea, he got out in '53 after the armistice. What he saw while there was enough that when I told him I was enlisting for 'Nam he made me promise not to go into the Marines, I ended up in the Army, and as things turned out Germany.

I am surprised that China has not seen NK as the next low cost manufacturing base. They could set up textile as an example, pay peanuts, and the NK people would benefit GREATLY.

See from my point of view the way to beat any Communist power is through one from of capitalism or another. Now Vlad and company have taken on a very dark version of it, but the Chinese are a lot closer to the US version then most people think.

I work for a Swiss company and we have a division doing business in China and the regular lay person there, have the same hopes and dreams we do. A steady job, and a better life for their kids. The just have a bit of Mao's teachings to get past.

I say give them NK in exchange for them getting the nukes out of there!
I don't think China wants that mess. They're happy having them as a buffer zone. And why would they want to spend the money on a NK plant and pay NK peasants peanuts when they can build the plant at home and pay their own people peanuts? And keep the profits in-house?

Also, did you hear that the Chinese capitalists seized a GM plant?

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Old 04-20-2017, 09:25 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I did not hear that, I guess you could call that a hostile takeover!
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:43 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I did not hear that, I guess you could call that a hostile takeover!
I saw this and decided to Google (actually, StartPage) it, and...

My bad. It was the national capitalists in Venezuela.

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Old 04-21-2017, 05:25 AM   #66 (permalink)
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LOL, yeah. their worry may have been justified.

joe
Here is a general overview of their current resettlement process. It's a big investment in both time and money. Now imagine doing that for all of them?!?!? All of the malnutrition, lack of education and job skills, and the list goes on. No thanks.


Overview of Current Resettlement Support Programs

Unlike other groups of migrants1 who have settled down in South Korea recently, North Korean refugees arrive in the country with a unique status. While considered South Korean citizens by law, North Korean refugees are first screened by the government for any security threat as well as to verify whether their claim of being North Korean is genuine2. Having completed the screening process, refugees enter Hanawon, a government operated institution that house and educate the refugees for 12 weeks. The educational courses include basic vocational training, lectures about Korean history and democracy, the concept of market economy, as well as psychological counseling, career-aptitude test, and health check-ups (Cho and Kim, 2011). After the refugees leave Hanawon the state provides them with a one-time resettlement payment and housing assistance, and a “resettlement helper” is made available to the refugees for up to two years. There is no centralized agency that handles the assistance programs for North Korean refugees, which are scattered across a number of ministries and local governments. For instance, the Ministry of Employment and Labor operates a program that helps North Korean refugees by connecting them to potential employers, and the Ministry of Education operates academic assistance programs to help students adjust to school, such as extracurricular activities and mentoring programs (Kim, 2009). There are also similar programs by the Migrant Youth Foundation under the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family that assist North Korean refugee students. At the municipal and provincial levels, local authorities provide administrative assistance and often implement the programs funded and supervised by the national government.

Link- http://en.asaninst.org/contents/rese...rean-refugees/
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:47 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Here is a general overview of their current resettlement process. It's a big investment in both time and money. Now imagine doing that for all of them?!?!? All of the malnutrition, lack of education and job skills, and the list goes on. No thanks.


Overview of Current Resettlement Support Programs

Unlike other groups of migrants1 who have settled down in South Korea recently, North Korean refugees arrive in the country with a unique status. While considered South Korean citizens by law, North Korean refugees are first screened by the government for any security threat as well as to verify whether their claim of being North Korean is genuine2. Having completed the screening process, refugees enter Hanawon, a government operated institution that house and educate the refugees for 12 weeks. The educational courses include basic vocational training, lectures about Korean history and democracy, the concept of market economy, as well as psychological counseling, career-aptitude test, and health check-ups (Cho and Kim, 2011). After the refugees leave Hanawon the state provides them with a one-time resettlement payment and housing assistance, and a “resettlement helper” is made available to the refugees for up to two years. There is no centralized agency that handles the assistance programs for North Korean refugees, which are scattered across a number of ministries and local governments. For instance, the Ministry of Employment and Labor operates a program that helps North Korean refugees by connecting them to potential employers, and the Ministry of Education operates academic assistance programs to help students adjust to school, such as extracurricular activities and mentoring programs (Kim, 2009). There are also similar programs by the Migrant Youth Foundation under the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family that assist North Korean refugee students. At the municipal and provincial levels, local authorities provide administrative assistance and often implement the programs funded and supervised by the national government.

Link- http://en.asaninst.org/contents/rese...rean-refugees/
Man, it's mind boggling. Now add the sheer congestion they'd cause. They'd make movement for defense or counter attack near impossible- the place is basically mountains. There isn't room to spread out or go around.

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Old 04-21-2017, 04:58 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Joe-

Right! It's not easy. Kicking NKs ass is easy but dealing with the aftermath is a huge problem. If we go to war, we are losing Patriots. It had better be worth it if we decide to go to war. I'm lucky to deal with only minor things after 3 combat tours but there a **** ton of Patriots dealing with a lot.

NK isn't a direct threat yet- it may soon be depending on a lot of things- so we have to work the problem. We have a big problem on our hands and it can't be solved by tweets, Spicer, or any other form of tough talk.

Maybe we have missed our opportunity and have to make a really hard decision. I hope not.
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:17 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Joe-

Right! It's not easy. Kicking NKs ass is easy but dealing with the aftermath is a huge problem. If we go to war, we are losing Patriots. It had better be worth it if we decide to go to war. I'm lucky to deal with only minor things after 3 combat tours but there a **** ton of Patriots dealing with a lot.

NK isn't a direct threat yet- it may soon be depending on a lot of things- so we have to work the problem. We have a big problem on our hands and it can't be solved by tweets, Spicer, or any other form of tough talk.

Maybe we have missed our opportunity and have to make a really hard decision. I hope not.
It's easy from up here in the bleachers.

Your last paragraph is how we normally operate- put it off 'til we have no choice but to deal with it.

The bright side is that waiting 'til our back's up against the wall adds even more haste, wate, and stupidity to our decision making.

Let me drag you on a little tangent here- I've never been able to get a decent overall definition of 'strategy vs tactics' from the military, the dictionary, or the populace. In my mind, TV and radio talking heads scramble the two words, constantly.

My personal definitions are Strategy = goal and tactic = method. I'd be interested in your take.

All the rest of y'all are welcome too.

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Old 04-21-2017, 05:54 PM   #70 (permalink)
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There are also similar programs by the Migrant Youth Foundation under the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family that assist North Korean refugee students.
WTH? They have gender equality in Korea?
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:07 PM   #71 (permalink)
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WTH? They have gender equality in Korea?
Soitenly! Haven't you ever seen Asian porn?

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Old 04-21-2017, 06:13 PM   #72 (permalink)
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It's easy from up here in the bleachers.

Your last paragraph is how we normally operate- put it off 'til we have no choice but to deal with it.

The bright side is that waiting 'til our back's up against the wall adds even more haste, wate, and stupidity to our decision making.

Let me drag you on a little tangent here- I've never been able to get a decent overall definition of 'strategy vs tactics' from the military, the dictionary, or the populace. In my mind, TV and radio talking heads scramble the two words, constantly.

My personal definitions are Strategy = goal and tactic = method. I'd be interested in your take.

All the rest of y'all are welcome too.

joe
Joe-

From a military perspective strategy is accomplished by tactics. Strategy is the larger picture and tactics are the small actions that take place to accomplish the strategy. Does that make sense?

I think where it gets confusing is when we try to equate a military asset to a task. Carrier Strike Groups are a strategic asset but can accomplish tactical actions to achieve a strategic objective.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:20 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Joe-

From a military perspective strategy is accomplished by tactics. Strategy is the larger picture and tactics are the small actions that take place to accomplish the strategy. Does that make sense?

I think where it gets confusing is when we try to equate a military asset to a task. Carrier Strike Groups are a strategic asset but can accomplish tactical actions to achieve a strategic objective.
I'm not criticizing, but you're doing what everyone does- defining the terms by building fences around them. Maybe the definitions can't be boiled down like I want them, but I have trouble accepting that.

A slight rewording of yours says that tactics are the small actions that take place to accomplish the larger picture. For me, that kind of forces your "larger picture" to translate as my "goal".

I think our definitions are compatible with each others', mine fit in your fences pretty well.

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Old 04-22-2017, 03:29 PM   #74 (permalink)
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It can be confusing. Think of it this way, Russia is flying bombers off of Alaska's coast. They have a strategic objective for doing so though I don't know what it is. The tactics they are using are the bombers. To further confuse it, those bombers may be a strategic asset for Russia- like C5s and CSGs are for the US- but they are using them to conduct a tactical action/mission.
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:04 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Hi--your initial definition is perfect in my mind.
Its only when we use adjectives that it can be less clear.
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