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Old 12-08-2012, 04:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Michigan Right 2 Work law

Michigan could be the first of many Northern Rust belt states to finally enact Right to Work legislation. While this would certainly help it against it's neighbors like Illinois and NY, I'm not sure it's going to keep the movement of factories to South Carolina and Texas (not to mention Texas).

We'll find out Monday if the Gov. will sign the legislation which has already passed the legislature.
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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James is reading this now saying WTF is this? James is reading this now saying WTF is this?
I've always wondered why these big companies in the cities, where the cost of living and taxes are much higher don't move to rural areas. The companies when losing money almost always blame the unions. There are so many right to work states where people would jump on the jobs for half the pay or less in certain areas. But...it's always the unions fault.

Where I grew up near Branson Missouri people would gobble up a job for any of the three big automakers for half the pay and benefits. The automakers would have so many applications they'd get dizzy sorting through them.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Obama throws in his 2-cents:

Quote:
The president weighed in on the debate for the first time during a stop at an engine plant outside Detroit. He departed from his usual discussion of fiscal crisis negotiations to chide local Republicans for pursuing legislation that would prohibit unions from demanding dues from workers.

"I've just got to say this -- what we shouldn't be doing is trying to take away your rights to bargain for better wages," Obama said, to raucous applause. "These so-called 'right-to-work' laws, they don't have anything to do with economics. They have everything to do with politics.
You're stomping around Michigan worried about the workers in Michigan being trusted with the "right" to work while the Federal Government prepares to go over what you yourself calls the "fiscal cliff," and you think WE CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ECONOMICS AND POLITICS?

Dumbass.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJW View Post
Obama throws in his 2-cents:



You're stomping around Michigan worried about the workers in Michigan being trusted with the "right" to work while the Federal Government prepares to go over what you yourself calls the "fiscal cliff," and you think WE CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ECONOMICS AND POLITICS?

Dumbass.
would prohibit unions from demanding dues from workers


Socialists words.


Dumbass

W
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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MadCity is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Apparently the "dumbasses" prevailed in this election.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:21 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Right to Work

Union:
You can't get representation without paying in and supporting our party

Some state governments:
Unions are busting our budget and we have to break these contracts

Who has the votes? The rest is just noise.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:42 PM   #7 (permalink)
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When unions were first started they served a good and needed purpose, but as with anything else over the years they have grown to be a monster. They have lost site of their members and are only intrested in how much power and money they can get. When the unions try to dictate where a company can open a plant then it's time for someone to put them in their place. Sure some wages would not be where they are today without unions but what you don't hear about is the under the table deals that are made every day in wich someone is filling their pockets. That's not even to mention the union officials that retire with 3,4,&5 pensions just because they sit on this board and that board, not that they do anything other than they are a board member. I don't have a problem with unions persay, just the union officials.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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A couple of years ago a group of UAW employees from Chrysler Jefferson North were filmed during their lunch break at a park near the plant. For 10 consecutive working days a local news team observed this group hanging in the park, smoking funny little cigarettes and drinking from brown paper bags. Then going back into the plant to work the rest of their shift.

Apparently someone they worked with on the line called attention to what was happening because they didn't feel safe working with these guys their "lunch".

The company, having just taken a government bailout, was embarrassed and fired all 13 caught in the act.

Yesterday, after two years, these guys got their jobs back thru union arbitration. Chrysler refused to say if they received back pay.

Is that what you mean by right to work?
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Making MI a right to work state is going to have a serious impact on the revenue the Democrats take in from the Unions. It's going to be interesting to see how the power balance shifts in the next few years.

I grew up in the Bay City/Saginaw area, you'd be amazed at the kind of mafia control the Unions have over business there. Michigan is the poster child for Union failure.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJW View Post
Obama throws in his 2-cents:

The president weighed in on the debate for the first time during a stop at an engine plant outside Detroit. He departed from his usual discussion of fiscal crisis negotiations to chide local Republicans for pursuing legislation that would prohibit unions from demanding dues from workers.


Hmmm... and what's wrong with a union charging dues to pay it's expenses?

Quote:

"I've just got to say this -- what we shouldn't be doing is trying to take away your rights to bargain for better wages," Obama said, to raucous applause. "These so-called 'right-to-work' laws, they don't have anything to do with economics. They have everything to do with politics.


You're stomping around Michigan worried about the workers in Michigan being trusted with the "right" to work
Because a "right to work" law doesn't give anybody any right to work.

But you know that dontcha?

Quote:
while the Federal Government prepares to go over what you yourself calls the "fiscal cliff," and you think WE CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ECONOMICS AND POLITICS?

Dumbass.
Funny, a big political point for you has been raising taxes on the wealthy. Why is it OK then to intermingle economics with politics?
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pigrider View Post
When unions were first started they served a good and needed purpose, but as with anything else over the years they have grown to be a monster.
Lets see, since the heydays of the 60's unions have "grown" from representing almost 40% of the workers in America (when mom could stay home, and most of America was not struggling, had pensions, health care, and workplace safety... to now only representing less than 12% of all American workers. Wow that's some monster there pigrider... and lets see now Americans are expected to hold over 20 jobs in their lifetimes, spend 20% of it unemployed, have no guaranteed pensions, and until just recently health care for the employer was going the way of the dodo bird.

See any pattern there pig?

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They have lost site of their members and are only intrested in how much power and money they can get.
Just what a corporate shill would say.

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When the unions try to dictate where a company can open a plant then it's time for someone to put them in their place.
Unions aren't in a position to dictate anything to a company. They're only in a position to bargain and or enforce existing contracts.

Quote:
Sure some wages would not be where they are today without unions
None of them would be. Because the only thing that keeps wages high is the presense of unions or the threat of unionization. United you bargain, divided you beg.

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but what you don't hear about is the under the table deals that are made every day in wich someone is filling their pockets.
Think that's done more by unions or in a nonunion enviroment?

Quote:
That's not even to mention the union officials that retire with 3,4,&5 pensions just because they sit on this board and that board, not that they do anything other than they are a board member.
Unfortunately, pensions are not earned concurrently. I myself will retire with 5 pensions, but participate in each one only as long as I worked within that particular division. If I'm ever elected to union office and become a paid officer, I will collect another pension, but the cash vale is no more than If I didn't become a union officer and simply remained where I'm at presently.

But it does sound more dastardly to claim union officers collect 3,4 & 5 pensions as if a "pension" was some set amount and they get 5 of them...

Quote:
I don't have a problem with unions persay,
I beg to differ.

Quote:
just the union officials.
So, let's have a government without a president, congress or the supreme court because you don't have a problem with government, just polititians...
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
I've always wondered why these big companies in the cities, where the cost of living and taxes are much higher don't move to rural areas. The companies when losing money almost always blame the unions. There are so many right to work states where people would jump on the jobs for half the pay or less in certain areas. But...it's always the unions fault.

Where I grew up near Branson Missouri people would gobble up a job for any of the three big automakers for half the pay and benefits. The automakers would have so many applications they'd get dizzy sorting through them.
Years ago people use to say I wish my husband could get a good Union paying job, but now they say Why is he making that much money, its easier to drag someone down than it is to pick ones self up. Funny that they don't want more money or benefits for their family.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer45u View Post
A couple of years ago a group of UAW employees from Chrysler Jefferson North were filmed during their lunch break at a park near the plant. For 10 consecutive working days a local news team observed this group hanging in the park, smoking funny little cigarettes and drinking from brown paper bags. Then going back into the plant to work the rest of their shift.

Apparently someone they worked with on the line called attention to what was happening because they didn't feel safe working with these guys their "lunch".

The company, having just taken a government bailout, was embarrassed and fired all 13 caught in the act.

Yesterday, after two years, these guys got their jobs back thru union arbitration. Chrysler refused to say if they received back pay.

Is that what you mean by right to work?
I guess it means "right to get fu*ked up on your lunch hour"! You know Chrysler had to pay them all back pay, or they would have said so, unless legal arbitration prevented disclosure. What a crock of sh!t. These idiots were caught in the act, on video, and their powerful union and a retarded arbitrator gives them their jobs back. Unf*ckinbelievable!
How's that for showing quality is Job one at the UAW???
Tim
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I guess it means "right to get fu*ked up on your lunch hour"! You know Chrysler had to pay them all back pay, or they would have said so, unless legal arbitration prevented disclosure. What a crock of sh!t. These idiots were caught in the act, on video,
No, they weren't caught. They were filmed smoking, who knows what because neither you nor I nor anybody could bet their life it was anything but homemade hand rolled cigarettes, and drinking who knows what out of who knows what because the product was impossible to distinguish because it was obscured by a paper bag.

This is a FAR CRY from being caught in the act of anything other than smoking something and drinking something because no drug or alcohol test was administered as per COMPANY POLICY!!!

Quote:
and their powerful union and a retarded arbitrator gives them their jobs back. Unf*ckinbelievable!
The arbitrator is not "theirs" and their union defended their actions because that is what unions are supposed to do.

IF the company had a case it would have proven it and the company would have won and the employees would have lost. This is not a situation where the union did anything wrong. This is a situation where the company illegally fired employees as a PR move against their collectively bargained and agreed to working agreement.

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How's that for showing quality is Job one at the UAW???
Tim
Where in the video footage was any defects in workmanship exposed? (I'll wait... )
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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No, they weren't caught. They were filmed smoking, who knows what because neither you nor I nor anybody could bet their life it was anything but homemade hand rolled cigarettes, and drinking who knows what out of who knows what because the product was impossible to distinguish because it was obscured by a paper bag.

This is a FAR CRY from being caught in the act of anything other than smoking something and drinking something because no drug or alcohol test was administered as per COMPANY POLICY!!!



The arbitrator is not "theirs" and their union defended their actions because that is what unions are supposed to do.

IF the company had a case it would have proven it and the company would have won and the employees would have lost. This is not a situation where the union did anything wrong. This is a situation where the company illegally fired employees as a PR move against their collectively bargained and agreed to working agreement.



Where in the video footage was any defects in workmanship exposed? (I'll wait... )
I'm not all that up on getting these plastic machines to do what I want. If you really want to see video on this subject just google "video of chrysler workers drinking on the job". You can see the whole story.

Defending actions like that are what is chasing business away from union shops. In a perfect situation the company shouldn't have to fire anyone, the union should do it. Why would employees honestly trying to move a company forward, or as in this case at the very least, trying to keep it alive, defend behavior counter productive to that goal.

I understand union action to protect honest employees from over zealous company discipline. That's one thing, but come on. Seriously. Take the time to look at the video clip and honestly tell me those guys were drinking gatorade and smoking Lucky Strikes.

If your request for video tape is to see film of poor workmanship or unsafe actions from those individuals after their little work day party forget it.

Although I have to admit, they handled equipment pretty good, just check out the way they loaded up and left that lot when the reporter approached them.

Naw, they weren't doing anything wrong, just in a hurry to get back on the job.
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