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Old 12-12-2012, 08:38 PM   #46 (permalink)
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The non dues paying employee would get the same pay and benefits and fall under the same negotiated workplace policies as the dues paying member. This results in workers dropping their union dues payments until the union can no longer financially exist. Once gone, the company does exactly what you see right now in ALL right-to-work states. The employees end up losing their collective bargained wages and benefits and the houses start getting razed in favor of single wide trailers.
Provide proof of this happening. I work in a right to work state. The hourly workers down on the mfg floor receive the same benefits and vacation packages as we who are salaried.

As far as their pay goes, they are certainly entitled to form and unionize and don't think for one second the leaders of the IBEW wouldn't love to do just that as they certainly see the $$$ they could be getting.

At my former company it was exactly the same thing. Only there the IBEW gained a small foothold and they used a few discontents to spread lies such as mgrs promoting women for sexual favors. In the end they couldn't even convince the hourly workers to even bring unionization to a vote. And be certain the Dept. of Labor was there to ensure that management didn't so much as whisper to workers about unionizing.

Last edited by claytp1; 12-12-2012 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:04 PM   #47 (permalink)
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This is all very funny, It all boils down to if the union is so wonderful why are they losing members the way they are? Does anyone think that wonder bread was asking to much for a driver to deliver both bread and twinkies on the same truck? No they werent but the union knew if they could make them I mean force them to use two different trucks that would mean two drivers and two lemmings paying the dues. This is one very simple example of the union forcing up the labor costs.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:45 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I guess we can all see that xbones is running for that union office. At least he has all the talking points down, now if they were all just true.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:57 AM   #49 (permalink)
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I guess we can all see that xbones is running for that union office. At least he has all the talking points down, now if they were all just true.
Bones is (or was) BA at the IBEW in Long Island (as I remember?). He is also a devout athiest, hater of the military, liberal northeast elitist, and avowed democratic socialist. But that's why we love him (even though he hates us because we're red necks).
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:00 AM   #50 (permalink)
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This results in workers dropping their union dues payments until the union can no longer financially exist..
Why would they not want to join and pay dues?

See bones...this is what "choice" means. People make decisions - right or wrong. Your job is to make the sale....but be careful...don't promise what you can't deliver....like what just happened in Michigan, when people see that the emperor has no clothes, they'll head for the exits.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:43 AM   #51 (permalink)
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It's funny how many of those loyal union members weren't so loyal anymore when they had to start writing a check to pay their dues here in Wisconsin.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...413999718.html
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:57 AM   #52 (permalink)
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It's funny how many of those loyal union members weren't so loyal anymore when they had to start writing a check to pay their dues here in Wisconsin.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...413999718.html
Can't read the article without paying to subscribe.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:54 AM   #53 (permalink)
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"My company is not union and I get all that and more..."
Explain "more" please.
If unions had never negotiated those benefits, you think your company would give them up out of the kindness of their hearts?
Paid vacation
Health care+ eye, dental
Profit sharing
Time and a half pay over 40 hrs.
Shift premium
Safety procedures
Retirement benefits

The "more" would be performance bonus', stock options. And like DJW said, it's about being competitive and attracting skilled, educated employees that will make the Company money.
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:57 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Paid vacation
Health care+ eye, dental
Profit sharing
Time and a half pay over 40 hrs.
Shift premium
Safety procedures
Retirement benefits

The "more" would be performance bonus', stock options. And like DJW said, it's about being competitive and attracting skilled, educated employees that will make the Company money.
The competition are union companies that perform the same job. What kind of job protection do you have when the boss wants to get his cousin a job and there are no available openings so he chooses to fire you to make room for his cousin Billy Bob?

What do you do for a living? Truck driver? I am assuming you are a blue collar guy...or are you in management?
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:11 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I remember an old local joke. You would hold up two fingers on one hand and ask what it was. Answer, a guy from Dodge Main ordering 4 beers.

Everyone got it. The other two fingers had been lost to a press, not all that uncommon in those days.

Unions fought to improve those working conditions. Now it seems government is doing what the unions were formed to do and are making their existence redundant. Ironic isn't it, unions support big government, big government obsoletes unions.

Look at that poster hanging on the wall in the employee lunchroom or next to the time clock. It will outline all the government work regulation and explain how to contact each agency. Things like:

Whistleblower Act
Family and Medical Leave Act
Anti- Discrimination
Right to Know
Equal Opportunity
Workers Compensation
Unified Service Employment and Reemployment Act
Polygraph Protection
OSHA Protection
Youth Employment Standards
Minimum Wage and Overtime Pay

Aren't many of those things the very reason unions were formed? Maybe their work has been done, but in order to justify their existence they continue to push deeper and demand more than the company they are working for can afford. Are greedy owners pushing manufacturing overseas or is it unrealistic labor demands and government over-regulation?

Work rules aren't made to protect the worker, they are made to increase workforce. Fear and mistrust are fostered to polarize employees and management. Hard working, dedicated, reliable employees are chastised while unproductive and unreliable employees are protected.

The ball is is unions hands. Become team players or spectators.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:13 AM   #56 (permalink)
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" it's about being competitive and attracting skilled, educated employees that will make the Company money."

Which is exactly what most modern day unions are about. You can't lump them all into one box, well you can and most here do but their wrong. Why unions have apprenticeship programs, some funded by the union, where people have to prove themselves before they advance. I've seen many deadbeat non-represented office workers at the 11,000 plus employee's, company I worked for, but because they could suck ass more than the other got raises while the ones that worked hard, but didn't look a certain way, or BS the boss, got none. You won't see a guy/gal in the field shopping on cyber monday durong company time like thousands of non-represented office workers, but that doesn't make the news. A good example was the customer service reps where I worked. They were treated well for many years, then a manager decided he'd get a bonus by showing savings.....giving the reps nothing for 3 years, then 1% for the next 2. You can guess what happened...after 70 yrs., they unionized. Happned in the Corrosion Control dep't., the Collection dep't, and a group of engineers. If the ones here that lump everyone into one category, think so little of their fellow man, I or anyone else will not change their minds.
BTW, I'm not a "thug", I never got drunk on the job (although a lot of managers did) and I believe in a fair days pay for fair days work.

And for you Mich. residents, Jobbie-Nooner was thought up by some non-represented office guys, and the majority of attendees are non-represented going on company time. My wife (non union) works for an automotive supplier, and verifies this.
Should I lump all non-represented as office f%*ks, or be grown up and judge people individually?
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:00 AM   #57 (permalink)
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The competition are union companies that perform the same job. What kind of job protection do you have when the boss wants to get his cousin a job and there are no available openings so he chooses to fire you to make room for his cousin Billy Bob?

What do you do for a living? Truck driver? I am assuming you are a blue collar guy...or are you in management?
What about the other side of that coin, you really think preople dont believe unions do the same thing? nepotism is alive and well even in a union shop.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:51 AM   #58 (permalink)
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The competition are union companies that perform the same job. What kind of job protection do you have when the boss wants to get his cousin a job and there are no available openings so he chooses to fire you to make room for his cousin Billy Bob?

What do you do for a living? Truck driver? I am assuming you are a blue collar guy...or are you in management?
I'm in what's called Logistics management or analysis, primarily DoD contracting, but the company I work for has it's fingers in the commercial world as well. I really don't think any of our competitors are Union oriented...
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:10 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I'm in what's called Logistics management or analysis, primarily DoD contracting, but the company I work for has it's fingers in the commercial world as well. I really don't think any of our competitors are Union oriented...
I don't know what Logisitics Management is but I'm going to assume it is a job that unions stay out of. Since the competition is also non-union then I'd also say you are lucky to work for a good employer who takes care of you. That doesn't happen so much for the blue collar worker...not in my area. In fact is is extremely rare.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:18 PM   #60 (permalink)
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What about the other side of that coin, you really think preople dont believe unions do the same thing? nepotism is alive and well even in a union shop.
I can only speak for my line of work in my area, all in the garbage industry. I have been in the Teamsters Union for 14 years. 4 as a driver and 10 as a mechanic. Now I am in a Mechanics Union for the last 9 years. So 23 years total as a union worker I seriously haven't heard of one single case of Nepotism. The only Nepotism I see is in management and have seen a lot of it. This isn't a bullshit reply to create an argument. It's facts I have seen. I don't care about what management does because it doesn't effect me, so they can hire whoever they want.

Last edited by James; 12-13-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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