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Old 12-04-2012, 04:56 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:45 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by <G Man> View Post
The discussion naturally drifted to Muslims in general (actually with posts by you and FXDRYDR). .
I don't think there are anyone but Muslims currently considering the cultural suicide known as "Sharia."

My point, which I probably didn't make well, was that the concept of "submission" which is the correct translation for the word "Islam" (not peace), is fundamental to understanding the link between Islam and Sharia. I'm trying hard to discuss the theological side of it without pumping too much of my own prejudices into it.

Maybe we could move on to discuss life under strict Kosher law? If you've ever spent some time in NYC you know that there are some "weirdass" things that come along with that too. D'ja ever ride an elevator on "sabbath service?"
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ;2202221
The intended connection was that what happens on the inside does not always get reflected accurately by outward appearance. Just because our government seems to think we should be welcoming in illegals and even providing them with benefits, I don't think that viewpoint is shared by a majority of US citizens. Likewise, the extreme beliefs and actions of Islamic leaders who have military power should not necessarily be assumed to be shared amongst ALL Muslims IMO.
That would be the thinking of the uninformed who's experience with Muslims is generally limited geographically to 7-11 stores in the US and personally to employees of said 7-11 stores. Thinking that jihadists are few and that a great many Muslims don't want all infidels annihilated or subjugated will be our undoing. Been to Europe lately?


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Old 12-04-2012, 07:37 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Spot-on Lefty .

Dearborn, MI would be an eye-opener for many Americans as well.

Islam is an evil perversity and comparing it to any simple theology is apples and oranges. Remember - Islam is an ideology. It encompases all aspects of Arab life and culture.

We talk about a seperation of church and state. Under Islam, the church and state are one and governed by Sharia. It permeates every aspect of the culture - and there is no escape. Apostates are not free to simply leave - they are to be killed. Other faiths are to be subjugated or eradicated.

A brief google search won't uncover the truth about it, nor does the media do much to enlighten Americans. Many politicians are duped and the president is an open supporter of the Saudi faction of Islam and the Muslim Brotherhood it supports. Islam is neither tolerant nor a "religion of peace." It is the opposite.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:30 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ;2202179
The "Devil's advocate crap" is a good assumption.

Just because I am not full of hate for everyone that believes anything different from me does not mean I have "no back bone" as you say.

Read my entire post. I do take the threat seriously. I just don't believe that threat is posed by all 1.8 billion followers of Islam. I don't even believe that all of those people are followers by choice. 15-20% of those people are the real problem.

How are you "standing up for it" any more than I am? Do you go out and randomly shoot people that you perceive as Muslims and think you are making a difference? Do you think alienating 1.8 billion people when 30 million of them are a real threat is helping your cause? Would you fire storm your entire house just to eliminate a rodent that moved in?

What exactly is your "side"? What "side" do you think I am on?

How many more of your freedoms are you willing to give up in the name of "Homeland Security"?

I do not live to be at war. I was led to understand that this was a "serious discussion" involving research and education. I would like to continue that.
I have served our great nation. I'm sure when I was ordered to launch a tomahawk it wasn't for a locals only firework show. I also don't remember anyone here cutting someone's head off. I would alienate an entire race, religion, family, country, government and political party if that meant my family is safe from threat.

Why do I need to give any freedoms up. It would only take three nukes to make the world remember why we are the united states. Problem is 5 states equalling the size of Texas keep voting wimps into office.

It is said that not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorist are Muslims. if we look back during Nazi occupation. The ideology of Hitler was to spread, lay waste, control through threat, murder, genocide, this was war. The Muslims are conducting th e same warfare. They have conducted genocide. They lay waste where ever they go. I'm pretty sure they use threat. They murder. They are spreading. Isn't that then similar to war? In war we locked up orientals in concentration camps during WW 2 just cause they looked like the enemy. Can't be to safe. Didn't the Christians try to wipe the Muslims off the face of the earth, yes. It is sad that they didn't succeed.
Now do-gooders don't want to offend the enemy. Rebuild their country. Give them food and money. Instead an idea of building a flucking worship center right on top of the mass grave they created. Incase you forgot. I'm talking about the world trade centers. I won't forget and I sure as fluck won't forgive. I hate to hear people playing the.......let's be friends with nice ones. The nice ones say they don't do that. They are indoctrinated to hate everything we are. They talk a good game and make the do-gooders protect their rights, like you. I have read your posts they are lacking conviction. Maybe you are Muslim or someone you love is. I don't care. It is still a free country.
I'm done. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, lol!
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:40 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I don't think the followers of Islam, in general of course, have evolved over the last 500-1000 years or so like MOST of the rest of the civilized world. I'm talkin evolution, that might be the wrong word, maybe progressed, regarding the sanctity of life, the rights of women or minorities and just common sense human dignity. Couple that with an insanely repressive attitude regarding interpersonal relationships betwixt the sexes and the hardcore idea that god commands these unhealthy societal rules with death or torture like stoning as a punishment and you wind up with peeps who act like a dog thats been beaten and treated cruelly in general it's whole life. Violence so ingrained into their thinking they're dangerous. I do believe that a significant amount, maybe even a majority of what we consider moderates are at least passively supportive of the more radical elements of the barbarism known as Islam.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:56 PM   #52 (permalink)
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the four, i gotta say you hit the nail right on the head
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:35 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJW View Post
I don't think there are anyone but Muslims currently considering the cultural suicide known as "Sharia."

My point, which I probably didn't make well, was that the concept of "submission" which is the correct translation for the word "Islam" (not peace), is fundamental to understanding the link between Islam and Sharia. I'm trying hard to discuss the theological side of it without pumping too much of my own prejudices into it.

Maybe we could move on to discuss life under strict Kosher law? If you've ever spent some time in NYC you know that there are some "weirdass" things that come along with that too. D'ja ever ride an elevator on "sabbath service?"
I appreciate that you are trying to educate me without interjecting prejudice. I admit that I am mostly unfamiliar with Kosher law as well. Elevator on sabbath service?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
That would be the thinking of the uninformed who's experience with Muslims is generally limited geographically to 7-11 stores in the US and personally to employees of said 7-11 stores. Thinking that jihadists are few and that a great many Muslims don't want all infidels annihilated or subjugated will be our undoing. Been to Europe lately?
At no point in this discussion have I denied my ignorance. I'm having a hard time determining if you truly want me to be more educated or just to belittle me for that ignorance.

I did do a little bit of reading on the site you provided a link to. One thing I did notice there is a confirmation (according to the claims of the site's author) of my belief that a great number of Islam's "followers" are ignorant themselves to the "true" message of their holy book. They are taught to recite verse, but not to read and understand it. They are quite purposely duped by their leaders. That concept seems familiar somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefour View Post
I have served our great nation. I'm sure when I was ordered to launch a tomahawk it wasn't for a locals only firework show. I also don't remember anyone here cutting someone's head off. I would alienate an entire race, religion, family, country, government and political party if that meant my family is safe from threat.

Why do I need to give any freedoms up. It would only take three nukes to make the world remember why we are the united states. Problem is 5 states equalling the size of Texas keep voting wimps into office.

It is said that not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorist are Muslims. if we look back during Nazi occupation. The ideology of Hitler was to spread, lay waste, control through threat, murder, genocide, this was war. The Muslims are conducting th e same warfare. They have conducted genocide. They lay waste where ever they go. I'm pretty sure they use threat. They murder. They are spreading. Isn't that then similar to war? In war we locked up orientals in concentration camps during WW 2 just cause they looked like the enemy. Can't be to safe. Didn't the Christians try to wipe the Muslims off the face of the earth, yes. It is sad that they didn't succeed.
Now do-gooders don't want to offend the enemy. Rebuild their country. Give them food and money. Instead an idea of building a flucking worship center right on top of the mass grave they created. Incase you forgot. I'm talking about the world trade centers. I won't forget and I sure as fluck won't forgive. I hate to hear people playing the.......let's be friends with nice ones. The nice ones say they don't do that. They are indoctrinated to hate everything we are. They talk a good game and make the do-gooders protect their rights, like you. I have read your posts they are lacking conviction. Maybe you are Muslim or someone you love is. I don't care. It is still a free country.
I'm done. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, lol!
Thank you for your service.

My feelings are not hurt and I am not disagreeing with any of what you say. The only thing I disagree with is the idea that there are no similarities between us and them. They want to eradicate us (or any who refuse to convert). Your comment about "3 nukes" confirms that you want to eradicate them to keep them from trying to convert you. Both sides see the other as a similar threat and have the same desires of eradication. How can you tell me there is no similarity here?

I may not know very much about who they are (although I can learn), but I am not afraid to admit who we are.

I have repeatedly admitted my ignorance regarding Islam. Why would you consider that I or a loved one might be a Muslim? What would make you think I am trying to protect anyone? Do you really feel that threatened by calm discussion?

There was a thread started here just a few days ago about those "fvcking animals" in Israel killing innocent children and women with their weapons. Are you suggesting that wiping an entire country off the face of the earth would not kill a lot of innocent people just because you are picking a middle eastern country? Did we not kill lots of innocent people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Does it make us feel better to believe that each and every one of those men, women and children are our enemy and out to get us?

Do you believe that those people came from a different creator than we?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:00 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by <G Man> View Post

My feelings are not hurt and I am not disagreeing with any of what you say. The only thing I disagree with is the idea that there are no similarities between us and them. They want to eradicate us (or any who refuse to convert). Your comment about "3 nukes" confirms that you want to eradicate them to keep them from trying to convert you. ?
Man o man.....G Man
The fairly common sentiment bout turning certain middle eastern countries into a sheet o glass is pretty much universally understood as an exaggeration or hyperbole. Comparing that to Muslims very real radical, murderous ideas that they have been acting on for centuries is no comparison at all. It sure isn't a valid example of similarities twixt us n them. There's very popular, with the regular common folk, political organizations over there that clearly name countries they want wiped from the face of the planet. These reasonable, peace loving woman beaters enjoy civilized political rallies in which perceived enemies are burned in effigy and crowds participate in a nice, peace loving, "death to " chant. Their violent speach and posturing is like a cultural past time and it's not just empty words, they believe this kinda chit, we make the nuke statements sorta tongue n cheek, for the most part anyway.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:16 AM   #55 (permalink)
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FXDRYDR .... post # 24
Thank you for posting ......
It appears that there is a general misunderstanding about the implications of Sharia law.
To equate Sharia law to anything is a mistake .....
Good post, and again thanks.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:20 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Here is the line that caught my attention: "When the Islamist insurgents took over there was lots of killing, raping, looting, and imposition of strict Sharia Law." Now, that is some kinda religion to allow killing, raping, and looting.
Who here wants to convert?
Just think of the catholics during the crusades. All religion is bad, and for the weak minded people who can't accept their own mortality.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:30 AM   #57 (permalink)
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You trying to make a point, please do.
I think he did
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:38 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Just think of the catholics during the crusades. All religion is bad, and for the weak minded people who can't accept their own mortality.
I disagree, government run in the name of religion is bad.
that is why I am so sick of people trampling all over the separation of church and state. This is a major building block of this country.

We don't have to worry about the Muslims destroying our country, we will do it our selves in the name of Christianity, sorry but I don't like other people's version of Christianity shoved down my throat as well.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:01 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by <G Man> View Post
I admit that I am mostly unfamiliar with Kosher law as well. Elevator on sabbath service?
Since Jews cannot create fire on the Sabbath, (amongst other no-nos) elevators are set to automatically stop and open on every floor all the way up, and all the way down, so no Jew would have to depress a button, thereby causing a spark in the switch, or,... "fire." (Cannot strike a match, drive a car, flip a light switch, reason why many Jews use timers to control lights, timers are ok, it's just the person that cannot initiate the fire.)
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:02 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Just think of the catholics during the crusades. All religion is bad, and for the weak minded people who can't accept their own mortality.
At the time the Muslims were in Spain.

I know we're weak minded (not like you of course), but fortunately we're so weak minded that we don't realize it (not like you of course) so it doesn't bother us.
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