Sharia

[<G Man>]

Originally Posted by Lefty

I know I won't ask you to research anything for me, G-Man, you proved your incompetence in that area with the Islam is love search. Below is the first item when I googled "koran quotes to kill infidels."

http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes.Islam

Your thoughts that we should seek to understand rather than, you used the word hate, I would use the words repel or deny, Islam is silly. There were those that said the same about Hitler in the '30s.

And, yes, yes, I know what is coming next, Christians were equally if not more brutal during the Crusades. As Danny Boy frequently regales us, Dems supported slavery and segregation in the past. Let's stay in the present.

Shall I point out that you found exactly what you were looking for?

I was told by others that I should understand and research Islam. I have not done enough research in a few minutes time to be an expert on anything. I do know that I will get different search results on Google if I search for "pictures" or "pictures of naked women".

I hope you are not reading in to my posts that I am somehow promoting Islam, because I am not. I have no intention of becoming a follower or trying to attract followers to the USA. I am simply trying to stir up "discussion" rather than mob mentality piling on.

[Hamilton]

Originally Posted by <G Man>

If you want to pit ALL of the people in the largest group on the planet against you and hate them, you go right ahead. I think seeking out and understanding the ones who are a real threat might make for an easier battle to win.

If you want to try and understand a war that has been going on for almost 4000 years, good luck.

BTW, it will end one day, but not because of anything that man did.

[<G Man>]

Originally Posted by Hamilton

If you want to try and understand a war that has been going on for almost 4000 years, good luck.

BTW, it will end one day, but not because of anything that man did.

Good words.

I do actually understand war (somewhat). War is a emotional and violent disagreement between a very few people who have been successful at convincing many more people that they have some stake in. At some point, most of the participants have no idea what the fighting was really about, they just know what side they are on.

I think it is human nature to desire inclusion and to feel that there is more purpose and significance to our existence than what there is.

[Lefty]

Originally Posted by <G Man>

Shall I point out that you found exactly what you were looking for?

I was told by others that I should understand and research Islam. I have not done enough research in a few minutes time to be an expert on anything. I do know that I will get different search results on Google if I search for "pictures" or "pictures of naked women".

I hope you are not reading in to my posts that I am somehow promoting Islam, because I am not. I have no intention of becoming a follower or trying to attract followers to the USA. I am simply trying to stir up "discussion" rather than mob mentality piling on.

Pot black, kettle black, G-Man. Enough of your middle school logic. . . . You think, posted, that Islam is little different socially/culturally/spiritually than Christianity so you found flowery Koran quotes to support that. I found less than flowery Koran quotes to dispute it. That's about what happened. Stop the adolescent logic lecturing. I'm not as ignorant as you think you are clever.

[Hamilton]

Originally Posted by <G Man>

War is a emotional and violent disagreement between a very few people...

Ain't that the truth. Governments disagree, but force the citizens to fight.

[pcarrell]

Originally Posted by Hamilton

If you want to try and understand a war that has been going on for almost 4000 years, good luck.

BTW, it will end one day, but not because of anything that man did.

Actually, it's really quite easy to understand the root of the problem. In the Bible you'll find a guy named Abraham. God tells Abraham that he and his decedents can have the promised land (basically, the middle east). Abraham has a son, his first son, with his wife's servant girl, and they name him Ishmael (this was an accepted tradition in that day....if the wife couldn't conceive, she appointed a servant to "stand in" for her). He then has a second son with his wife and they name him Isaac (they thought she was barren, but apparently they were wrong). Jealousies get out of control and Abraham sends the servant girl and her son away. Ishmael grows up, and through the course of time he becomes an ancestor of Mohamed, who, as we know is the founder of Islam. When Abraham dies, tradition of the times say that the first born son gets most of the stuff from his father. Isaac get's the blessing though, and he is in the ancestry of the Jewish people.

The Jew's settle the promised land and the ancestors of what would become the Muslims take a back seat. It leaves a sour taste in their mouth, and 4000 years of fighting ensue.

That's the Cliff Notes version.......

And BTW, the Crusades were all about the Christians fighting to get back the promised land from the Muslim's after they took over for a time.

Now, as to all the stuff that's happened since then, that's a little tougher to wade through.

The whole thing is nasty business really.

[<G Man>]

Originally Posted by Lefty

Pot black, kettle black, G-Man. Enough of your middle school logic. . . . You think, posted, that Islam is little different socially/culturally/spiritually than Christianity so you found flowery Koran quotes to support that. I found less than flowery Koran quotes to dispute it. That's about what happened. Stop the adolescent logic lecturing. I'm not as ignorant as you think you are clever.

No need to get upset.

I'm not lecturing or trying to be clever, nor do I think you are ignorant.

I did not search for "flowery quotes", I searched for Islam in general and found many pages explaining the "misconceptions of Muslims". I'm sure those pages are strategically placed there and paid for by certain groups who want those pages to be found as are all top hits in Google. I believe they are called "ad-words". Anybody can pay for results in Google so I would certainly not consider a search there to be impartial by any means.

Just for the record, I did not say that they were "little different socially/culturally/spiritually ". What I said was that there are similarities.

[Lefty]

Originally Posted by <G Man>

No need to get upset.

I'm not lecturing or trying to be clever, nor do I think you are ignorant.

I did not search for "flowery quotes", I searched for Islam in general and found many pages explaining the "misconceptions of Muslims". I'm sure those pages are strategically placed there and paid for by certain groups who want those pages to be found as are all top hits in Google. I believe they are called "ad-words". Anybody can pay for results in Google so I would certainly not consider a search there to be impartial by any means.

Just for the record, I did not say that they were "little different socially/culturally/spiritually ". What I said was that there are similarities.

There are similarities between black and white. Both are described as colors by humans. You're parsing like a politician.

[<G Man>]

Originally Posted by Lefty

There are similarities between black and white. Both are described as colors by humans. You're parsing like a politician.

Not parsing. I gave a clear explanation of what similarities I see.

[DJW]

Pope Benedict was almost "crucified" for even using this quote in a completely benign context, but you can't deny that what the original author said is as true today as it was 6 centuries ago:

Emperor Manual II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only 'evil and inhuman,' such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

That is not to absolve any religion, past or present, for the same fault: conversion by the sword is wrong by whomever practices it.

However, here 6 centuries later, do we see a religion that continues to convert, or prevent conversion by the sword? We do if we look at the ring of "fire" that surrounds the Islamic world. From within and at every border, the Islamic world is at war.

IMO, that is inherent in their religious tradition. As Lefty put so well, the proper means of evangelism is to make your case, and if someone doesn't care to hear it, you "shake the dust from your sandals" and move on. Conversion by the sword is acceptable practice in Islam...and IMO, there is a fundamental reason for it that should not be whitewashed in the name of "tolerance."

If you read the Pope's lecture, in it's proper context, you'll see that he wasn't even referring to Islam, but rather to a discussion between the Emperor and a Persian in regards to the need for conversion through rationale discussion instead of threats of violence.

His reward for even using that quote was threats of violence. So much for rationale discussion.

[<G Man>]

Originally Posted by DJW

IMO, that is inherent in their religious tradition. As Lefty put so well, the proper means of evangelism is to make your case, and if someone doesn't care to hear it, you "shake the dust from your sandals" and move on. Conversion by the sword is acceptable practice in Islam...and IMO, there is a fundamental reason for it that should not be whitewashed in the name of "tolerance."

To a Mexican, the USA might look like a place of refuge that offers a new beginning and free health care. The taking in of illegal Mexican immigrants has become "acceptable practice" here. Does that mean that all of us citizens see it the same way?

[Tequila SG]

Originally Posted by <G Man>

Not parsing. I gave a clear explanation of what similarities I see.

That's the problem you're seeing similarities where there are none.

[pcarrell]

Originally Posted by <G Man>

To a Mexican, the USA might look like a place of refuge that offers a new beginning and free health care. The taking in of illegal Mexican immigrants has become "acceptable practice" here. Does that mean that all of us citizens see it the same way?

I've been following along with this conversation fairly well so far, but ya lost me here. Care to expand on this thought and it's connection to the topic?

You highlighted the words "Conversion by the sword is acceptable practice in Islam" in your quote, and maybe I'm just a little slow today, but I'm not seeing the connection.

[DJW]

Originally Posted by <G Man>

To a Mexican, the USA might look like a place of refuge that offers a new beginning and free health care. The taking in of illegal Mexican immigrants has become "acceptable practice" here. Does that mean that all of us citizens see it the same way?

Sorry, but you're missing the point I think.

What I am saying is that conversion by the sword is fundamentally a part of Islamic practice.

Now, I'm sure there are "Muslims" that don't ascribe to that, but then there are "Christians" that don't ascribe to much of what Christianity teaches as well.

That's not the point of the thread...which is a discussion of Sharia not "sharia-lite."

[<G Man>]

Originally Posted by pcarrell

I've been following along with this conversation fairly well so far, but ya lost me here. Care to expand on this thought and it's connection to the topic?

You highlighted the words "Conversion by the sword is acceptable practice in Islam" in your quote, and maybe I'm just a little slow today, but I'm not seeing the connection.

The intended connection was that what happens on the inside does not always get reflected accurately by outward appearance. Just because our government seems to think we should be welcoming in illegals and even providing them with benefits, I don't think that viewpoint is shared by a majority of US citizens. Likewise, the extreme beliefs and actions of Islamic leaders who have military power should not necessarily be assumed to be shared amongst ALL Muslims IMO.

Originally Posted by DJW

Sorry, but you're missing the point I think.

What I am saying is that conversion by the sword is fundamentally a part of Islamic practice.

Now, I'm sure there are "Muslims" that don't ascribe to that, but then there are "Christians" that don't ascribe to much of what Christianity teaches as well.

That's not the point of the thread...which is a discussion of Sharia not "sharia-lite."

Fair enough. But the OP seemed to be in favor of converting to Sharia (surely in jest).

The discussion naturally drifted to Muslims in general (actually with posts by you and FXDRYDR). I was just going with the flow.