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Old 11-24-2012, 11:00 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Why should this matter to you anyways... North Carolina is going to seceed from the US. At least thats what the crackpot rightwingnuts tell us.
That is what they were saying in Chicago, a 150 years ago.
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Old 11-24-2012, 11:53 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I've got a serious question. If a church doesn't pay property taxes and a fire starts in the church and the fire is not endangering any other building, why should the city be responsible for putting out the fire in the church, since the church doesn't pay the taxes out of which the fire protection is paid for? And why should they be entitled to other city services, like water, sewer, garbage, police, etc that come out of property taxes?

................... I'm just curious about why churches or individuals get these services when they don't pay for them.
Man, that's how I think when it comes to subsidizing abortion, food stamps, section 8 housing, health care or cell phones. The list goes on and on, why should individuals be "entitled to other city services, like water, sewer, garbage, police, etc that come out of property taxes "?
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:05 PM   #48 (permalink)
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The person renting the building to them, is paying property taxes, in this case.

But as to other organizations that own their property, I am up for discussion on that. I may be more inclinded to see a reduced rate. I hate to hinder charities.
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The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force! -Ursus
The Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I did it on my own-Waylon
Helmets are like rubbers you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't.-Me
Sometimes I think its a sin, when I feel like I am winning when I am losing again.-GL
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:27 PM   #49 (permalink)
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The person renting the building to them, is paying property taxes, in this case.

But as to other organizations that own their property, I am up for discussion on that. I may be more inclinded to see a reduced rate. I hate to hinder charities.
As long as the non profit is benefiting the community I have no problem with them not paying taxes. In the case of churches and civic organizations, they often take the burden off taxpayers by providing services the tax payer might otherwise be paying for. They operate soup kitchens, shelters, thrift stores, and provide medical care, food and clothing, education, counseling and rehab for the homeless. Each member of a civic group or congregation pays property taxes of their own and they also provide from volunteering their time and from their own personal finances the money to build and operate the church or organization so why should any of the money they put into the church go to the government?
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:27 PM   #50 (permalink)
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How do you draw the line, between non profit and charity? Churches do a lot of charity. I talked to a guy at a gun club that has been around for a 30+ years. He said they gave up on non profit cause of the hassle. Not sure if I agree with that. They probably just raised the dues to pay for the taxes.

The problem would be defining a charity. You can come up with a lot of loop holes. Though we are taxed so damn much, I don't mind people using a loop holes, it is self defense.
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The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force! -Ursus
The Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I did it on my own-Waylon
Helmets are like rubbers you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't.-Me
Sometimes I think its a sin, when I feel like I am winning when I am losing again.-GL
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:29 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I am fine with saying non profit pays no taxes. The people that make it up do. The money the spend was taxed when someone earned it.
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The Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I did it on my own-Waylon
Helmets are like rubbers you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't.-Me
Sometimes I think its a sin, when I feel like I am winning when I am losing again.-GL
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:40 PM   #52 (permalink)
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The owner of the building is paying property taxes, for fire, police ect. If you are not generating income, then what do you have to be taxed on?

You pay sales tax on the products you use, from money that was taxed from the income that created it.

Why should an organization pay taxes just to exist?
If I live in my home, and am retired, and generating no income, should I have to pay property taxes? Of course. I am paying for services provided by the government. If I don't have money to pay for these services, my home will eventually be seized and sold for back taxes. It should be up to the owner of the building, a church or an individual to figure out how to get money to pay for the services. For a church, that is easy. It should come out of member contributions. The members of a church pay dues for building upkeep, electricity, gas, etc. Why shouldn't fire protection, etc., come out of church dues, too?
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:58 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Your house serves only you. One thing I like that MI does, it freezes your property taxes when you buy it, except for inflation. That is the way it should be.

One thing to keep in mind about retirees, you planned or should have for retirement. You can quit working today, if you saved your money.
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The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force! -Ursus
The Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I did it on my own-Waylon
Helmets are like rubbers you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't.-Me
Sometimes I think its a sin, when I feel like I am winning when I am losing again.-GL
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:59 PM   #54 (permalink)
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But again in this case, they are renting a space, whose owner is paying taxes. I am assuming they are renting.
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The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force! -Ursus
The Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I did it on my own-Waylon
Helmets are like rubbers you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't.-Me
Sometimes I think its a sin, when I feel like I am winning when I am losing again.-GL
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:01 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
If I live in my home, and am retired, and generating no income, should I have to pay property taxes? Of course. I am paying for services provided by the government. If I don't have money to pay for these services, my home will eventually be seized and sold for back taxes. It should be up to the owner of the building, a church or an individual to figure out how to get money to pay for the services. For a church, that is easy. It should come out of member contributions. The members of a church pay dues for building upkeep, electricity, gas, etc. Why shouldn't fire protection, etc., come out of church dues, too?
You never answered the question:

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/re...ml#post2199061

Would you apply the same lack of fire protection or the levying of property taxes to other non-church non-profit groups?
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:01 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
If I live in my home, and am retired, and generating no income, should I have to pay property taxes? Of course. I am paying for services provided by the government. If I don't have money to pay for these services, my home will eventually be seized and sold for back taxes. It should be up to the owner of the building, a church or an individual to figure out how to get money to pay for the services. For a church, that is easy. It should come out of member contributions. The members of a church pay dues for building upkeep, electricity, gas, etc. Why shouldn't fire protection, etc., come out of church dues, too?
Are you providing any services that the taxpayer might otherwise have to provide? What are you giving back to your community in exchange for not having to pay taxes? If a Church is operating a soup kitchen, homeless shelter etc why would you want to take money from those programs just to hand it over to the government? Do you really think they will spend the money more wisely or benefit the community more than a Church or civic organization will?
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:05 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Are you providing any services that the taxpayer might otherwise have to provide? What are you giving back to your community in exchange for not having to pay taxes? If a Church is operating a soup kitchen, homeless shelter etc why would you want to take money from those programs just to hand it over to the government? Do you really think they will spend the money more wisely or benefit the community more than a Church or civic organization will?
I think this is a distinction. He decided to quit working.
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The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force! -Ursus
The Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I did it on my own-Waylon
Helmets are like rubbers you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't.-Me
Sometimes I think its a sin, when I feel like I am winning when I am losing again.-GL
2001 FLHR, 98"
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:10 PM   #58 (permalink)
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The police and fire are already in place, it is part of being a society, the cost is only when called apon, even then, often wages are already paid for.

It is part of being in a society, so I am ok with certain elements not paying, as foundations of society. While I am sure you can bring up many cases where they are fringe.

it is not like I can choose to not be party society. So there should be some things that is provided by society. Otherwise I should just put in my own fire supression system and buy fire insurance and get a credit on my taxes. I should also be able to arm myself and take a credit. Plus deduction per big dog I have.
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Lets not turn on each other, unless we have to.
The only thing that counts in the end is power! Naked merciless force! -Ursus
The Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I did it on my own-Waylon
Helmets are like rubbers you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't.-Me
Sometimes I think its a sin, when I feel like I am winning when I am losing again.-GL
2001 FLHR, 98"
2007 FLHTCU
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