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Old 11-21-2012, 01:45 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Off topic sorta, but good reading all the same


http://www.city-journal.org/2012/22_1_scott-walker.html
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:27 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Feasible but not practical. Weight/cube on a Hersey bar is a lot different than a Twinkie. They're gonna have to make them fairly close to the customer.
How far are Twinkies and other Hostess products shipped now? Would shipping from Mexico really be that much different?
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:11 PM   #63 (permalink)
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the problem isn't shipping. It's upper management getting raises while workers get stiffed. The unions have bad points and good points but upper management always gets the raises. When Hostess closes the upper management will not be filing for unemployment.

BTW, one of the guys on FOX made Twinkie milk shakes on air. Looked pretty good.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:54 PM   #64 (permalink)
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the problem isn't shipping. It's upper management getting raises while workers get stiffed. The unions have bad points and good points but upper management always gets the raises. When Hostess closes the upper management will not be filing for unemployment.

BTW, one of the guys on FOX made Twinkie milk shakes on air. Looked pretty good.
I caught the end of a report about the union Hostess drivers have. I guess it is the Teamsters. Anyway it seems union drivers can't carry Twinkies and other confections on the same truck as bread. If they do the people that unload the bread can not unload the confections and vice versa. My brother in law used to tell me stuff like that about the Longshoremens Union. He worked in Sparrows Point near Dundalk, Md. A lot of times someone would be assigned to 2 different jobs. He would get paid for both yet he could only work one of them. He was in management and everyone knew it was going on but there was nothing they could do about it. Also sometimes jobs were held up for hours waiting for somone to come and do a simple 2 minute task anyone could do but no one except someone from a particular shop was allowed to touch it.

Even where I worked we didn't have a union but did have an employee council and we had the same thing. If it was a mechanics job you couldn't do it even if it was just tightening a loose bolt. We often had machines down entire shifts waiting on simple stuff like that.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. -Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:51 PM   #65 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=DJW;2198531]Keep the following facts in mind when you ask that question:

"1) The City is Democrat, the people doing the negotiations on behalf of the City are Democrats, heavily supported by the very Unions they're negotiating with. "

Doesn't matter what party affiliation, their managers, do your job or get out. That's what workers are told every day.

"2) The City is in a similar position as any business when it comes to the threat of a strike. Should Company X stand their ground and let the strike continue and destroy the company? "

When companies (government included) look ahead, I mean 5 or more years out, and there is a problem, the majority of unions will sit down, even in the midle of a contract, and help fix the problem. This is not the 1970's, unions all over (that are sill here today) know the importance of partnership, and keeping people at work. I'ts when managment breaches trust(they do have the upper hand) that things begin to unravel. Kinda what's happening in Congress.....ya think.

"3) Finally, this past Presidential election is all the proof you need that given the opportunity to fix our problems or kick the can down the road...Americans appear to always chose the later. Well, for Hostess and for many municipalities here in NY, the can just ran out of road."

It's never one sided. Muncipalities lose tax base when their workers find something else because no one can live a good life on $14.00hr. or less. Muncipalities and the economy lose because the tax base is diminished when Hostess goes out of buisness so a very few at the top can make millions and bail. They didn't have a problem kickin' the can as long as they got theirs. F%#ck everyone else, right! So muncipalities and companies run out of road too, and they had a hand in it. You can't honestly say they didn't, unless your ideology clouds your vision and common sense.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:39 PM   #66 (permalink)
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You can't honestly say they didn't, unless your ideology clouds your vision and common sense.
I can't "honestly say" what management made and what they didn't make. Maybe you know? If you fired everyone in management would that have balanced the books? I doubt it....but if not educate me.

As for the "ownership" they don't get a dime until the sell the skeleton. My guess is their initial investment won't be covered by the pieces, but that's not always the case. That's fine. They own it. They can sheit on it for all I care.

And if the union workers think they can do better....go for it kids. I hear Mexico is hiring.

If it weren't for the loss of Suzy-Qs I wouldn't have even started this thread - otherwise I wouldn't have had a dog in the hunt.

Too bad they just weren't too big to fail...the Obama could have just used my tax money to bail the whole buncha' them out.

Oh well. I prefer Pumpkin Pie tomorrow anyway.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:01 PM   #67 (permalink)
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has anybody considered that demand is the reason hostess lost money.
with all the doggoders telling everybody what they should eat and shouldnt eat it was olny a matter of time before companies start going out of buisness. and if you think im kidding wait till they start telling you that you cant ride anymore because it cost's to much to put you back together when you crash
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:37 PM   #68 (permalink)
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has anybody considered that demand is the reason hostess lost money.
with all the doggoders telling everybody what they should eat and shouldnt eat it was olny a matter of time before companies start going out of buisness. and if you think im kidding wait till they start telling you that you cant ride anymore because it cost's to much to put you back together when you crash

My thoughts exactly.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. -Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764
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Old 11-22-2012, 06:30 AM   #69 (permalink)
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has anybody considered that demand is the reason hostess lost money.
with all the doggoders telling everybody what they should eat and shouldnt eat it was olny a matter of time before companies start going out of buisness...


No doubt.

That is exactly what the problem is. Instead of healthy snacks like ho-hos and "fruit" pies, we now give our kids crap like: apples, raisins and granola bars.

So maybe the company was doomed anyway, just like Chevy, they didn't make a product that people wanted at a price that people were willing to pay....so they went under...

....oh wait...what?




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...and if you think im kidding wait till they start telling you that you cant ride anymore because it cost's to much to put you back together when you crash
You shouldn't say things like that...you'll be accused of being a "conspiracy theorist," or the "minister of propaganda," or (gasp) - a hater - like me.
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Last edited by DJW; 11-22-2012 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:41 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Lefty is reading this now saying WTF is this? Lefty is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Ascribing lack of demand to "do gooders" is disingenous at best and simply stupid at worst. Over 30 years ago my wife and I had enough sense not to feed our kids garbage and they learned enough not to feed the same to their kids. Yes, everyone should be free to eat $hit, but an increasing number have enough sense not to. Refraining from eating a regular diet of ho-ho and twinkie is not unAmerican nor necessarily induced by evil libtard influence. Sometimes, no frequently, these R&P threads degenerate into ideology driven insanity that is completely nonsensical.
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Last edited by Lefty; 11-22-2012 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:09 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJW View Post
I can't "honestly say" what management made and what they didn't make. Maybe you know? If you fired everyone in management would that have balanced the books? I doubt it....but if not educate me.

As for the "ownership" they don't get a dime until the sell the skeleton. My guess is their initial investment won't be covered by the pieces, but that's not always the case. That's fine. They own it. They can sheit on it for all I care.

And if the union workers think they can do better....go for it kids. I hear Mexico is hiring.

If it weren't for the loss of Suzy-Qs I wouldn't have even started this thread - otherwise I wouldn't have had a dog in the hunt.

Too bad they just weren't too big to fail...the Obama could have just used my tax money to bail the whole buncha' them out.

Oh well. I prefer Pumpkin Pie tomorrow anyway.
Didn't they give themselves big pay raises when the company is going to crap? They took what ever they could, and decide to liquidation. Its the business way of making money, wish I could do it.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:13 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Didn't they give themselves big pay raises when the company is going to crap? They took what ever they could, and decide to liquidation. Its the business way of making money, wish I could do it.
It is a matter of fact that the "investors" took on more debt when Hostess last restructured, with which they lined their personal accounts. It will do you no good to point these things out. Don't believe your lying eyes. Just drink the koolaid and chant, "Unions bad, investors good."


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Old 11-22-2012, 10:37 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Yes we can!!!!

Quote:
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Didn't they give themselves big pay raises when the company is going to crap? They took what ever they could, and decide to liquidation. Its the business way of making money, wish I could do it.
You can do it! Don't listen to what others tell you, this is America and you are free to start a business, build and grow it. Then give yourself a big pay raise shut it down and liquidate it. What is stopping you?
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:16 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Union haters love this stuff. They think it's funny. Why anybody thinks it is funny when someone is getting screwed by their employer and thinks it is funny is beyond me.

“Hostess Brands is making a mockery of the labor relations system that has been in place for nearly 100 years. Our members are not just striking for themselves, but for all unionized workers across North America who are covered by collective bargaining agreements,” states BCTGM International President Frank Hurt.

The contract calls for extreme wage and benefit cuts which amount to 27- 32% overall, with an 8% wage reduction imposed immediately. The company unilaterally ceased making contributions, required by their union contracts, to the workers’ pensions in July 2011.

Hostess has also imposed draconian cuts in health benefits and eliminated the eight-hour workday.

Hostess Brands is in bankruptcy for the second time in eight years. Since the first bankruptcy in 2004, BCTGM members across the country have taken dramatic wage and benefit concessions and watched as 21 Hostess plants were shut down and thousands of jobs lost. At the time of the first bankruptcy, Hostess workers were assured by management that money saved via concessions or plant closings would help make the company stronger, more vibrant, and more competitive.

Instead, helpless Hostess employees watched as money that was supposed to go towards capital investment, product development, plant improvement and new equipment went to executive
bonuses and payouts to the hedge funds that own Hostess Brands.

They watched as the company illegally withdrew from all Taft-Hartley pension plans, saving more than $50 million in the first
five months. The BCTGM learned that the then Hostess CEO was to be awarded a 300% raise, and at least nine other top executives were to receive raises ranging between 35% and 80%.

Since the company ceased making contractually obligated payments to the Hostess workers’ pensions in July 2011, it has pocketed approximately $160 million – money earned by and owed
to its dedicated workforce.


Striking members know that the Wall Street investors currently in control of the company have no intention of building a world class wholesale bread and cake company. They will simply take the money from the workers’ severe concessions and the sale of assets, pay themselves and then liquidate the company. The company’s business plan, when reviewed by a highly-respected financial analyst retained by the company, was determined to have little or no chance of succeeding in saving Hostess.

http://bctgm.org/PDFs/NationalStrike...ds_11_9_12.pdf
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:56 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Good post James. Everything in red is a contibuting factor, why Republicans have lost the last 2 presedential elections. Unless things start to change you'll see another Flint, Mi. 1936, only this time it will be here, China, Mexico and everwhere else people are exploited by buisness.
I may not see it in my life time, but It'll happen. You can only push people so far.

Last edited by compressor#v; 11-22-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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