Can't have your twinkie and eat it too

[spdrcr137]

agreed, it takes both

[RGRider]

As the Twinkie crumbles. Looks like mediation has failed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...=djemalertNEWS

[Nitram_b4]

Originally Posted by Michael Psycle

The only ones who are the winners here are the venture capitalists who bought the brand after the 2004 bankruptcy and loaded up the company with debt, and their own pockets with the fees for their restructuring of the company. Everyone else lost.

This is true, but if your dead set on blaming the workers without all the facts...have at it.
Why don't you try and look up what "peeling off a pension fund" means. the venture capitalists wind up killing the company by burdening it with 10 times the org debt and destroying the pension fund and leaving that nice big fat bill to the government to cover.
But those damn workers are to blame.

[DJW]

Originally Posted by compressor#v

"Sun Capital has already said it wants the skeleton."

And they don't have a problem keeping it unionized.

- minus the legacy costs.

I'll give you an example. According to the City Auditor here, sometime in the summer of 2013 the cost for City employees still employed and retired pensions and benefits will exceed 100% of the entire amount of taxes received in an entire year.

At that point the City will also have to declare bankruptcy and shed their legacy costs. All the union benefits that seemed so wonderful to the City's employees will vanish overnight.

[boston62]

Originally Posted by claytp1

If this is in fact true, the company was doomed and more concessions may have been useless. I'm okay with management being paid well so long as the do their job well, a standard the rest of us are held to.

Don't you think that Owners & CEO should be the first to give into concessions, before the workers? If there taking raises & bonus when the Company is in trouble.


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[spdrcr137]

Whos to say they didnt?

[spdrcr137]

Remember when we got our jobs and felt like it was a blessing? Why does time turn it into a broken relationship? Time and time again I see long term employees that hate the job they have, and the new employees that are hired love it. Nothing is different between the two except time and pay the long term obviously are hire payed although they dont perform any better. I sometimes catch myself saying under my breath how I hate my job then I pull my head out of my ass and remember how I felt when I got that call saying come to work for us. The us against them mentality that unions exploit must stop. I have a simple agreement with my employer, when I dont like what they are doing or how they are treating me I find another job.

[jammer45u]

Originally Posted by werdna65

Not sure of the mill you are talking about, I drive a Truck for a living and since I started in 1983 I can name more then 10 that are gone, because of cheaper oversea's steel coming in. These plants were the size of mid-sized Towns, and covered miles of ground. One plant in the town not far from me got sold to an outside country, they move every Machine and most of the building to the sea port, ( I help ship it out. I don't see much This country MAKES and if we still do, it most of the time gets shipped over sea, Not always but most. Don't believe, start looking in the store.

I think he is talking about Crucible, a small specialty producer. They have a few mini mills around the midwest, one in Chicago I think.

I'm in trucking as well, and have also watched the industry I serve vanish. A large part of the problem is economic. Worldwide steel making capacity outweighs demand. If every mill in the U.S. shut down (like the greens would love to see) there would still be enough capacity outside the U.S. to supply worldwide demand.

One of the small mills here shut down. Another example of unrealistic labor demands putting a company on it's knees, then outside investors with no knowledge of the industry or intention of sustaining operation, taking over to bleed it dry. The equipment was outdated. Couldn't meet current U.S. EPA standards, they were paying heavy daily fines to operate. Substantial investment was needed to bring the mill in compliance. Instead, it was shut down. Some of the better equipment was moved to Mexico and is pounding out steel there as I write this. Without worries of EPA compliance and fines.

Who killed that mill?
A. Labor
B. Management
C. Government regulation
D. All of the above

Who killed the Twinkies? I think probably the same scenario.

[compressor#v]

Originally Posted by DJW

- minus the legacy costs.

I'll give you an example. According to the City Auditor here, sometime in the summer of 2013 the cost for City employees still employed and retired pensions and benefits will exceed 100% of the entire amount of taxes received in an entire year.

At that point the City will also have to declare bankruptcy and shed their legacy costs. All the union benefits that seemed so wonderful to the City's employees will vanish overnight.

So it's the workers fault, city officials (management) couldn't manage? It's the workers fault that city officials didn't look past their noses and fund the pensions/medical properly or adress the problems. Contracts are never more than 5 years in duration, 3 being the norm. It's not the workers fault, that corporations exploit people overseas, (cause they can't exploit 'em here any more) and the tax base is gone. Plus you all b#%tch if God forbid you have to pay into the system. When there are no more cops, firemen, and teachers in your town, because you all think they should eat cat food in their golden years, call one of the folks with same ideology as yours, maybe they'll help you out. If you can raise a family, roof over their head, transportation, utilities, food, medical insurance, save for your retirement and childrens college education on $14.00 hr. show us all how. Be sure to include pictures of the home, car, clothes your family wears, and how much in savings you have.

[boston62]

It seems that Employers & Employees isn't like it was before where the Employers were glad they had good dependable workers, who in the long run saw each benefit from their hard work, but when it comes down to shareholders all that is lost...it comes down to how much money can I make on my investments.

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[jammer45u]

Originally Posted by compressor#v

So it's the workers fault, city officials (management) couldn't manage? It's the workers fault that city officials didn't look past their noses and fund the pensions/medical properly or adress the problems. Contracts are never more than 5 years in duration, 3 being the norm. It's not the workers fault, that corporations exploit people overseas, (cause they can't exploit 'em here any more) and the tax base is gone. Plus you all b#%tch if God forbid you have to pay into the system. When there are no more cops, firemen, and teachers in your town, because you all think they should eat cat food in their golden years, call one of the folks with same ideology as yours, maybe they'll help you out. If you can raise a family, roof over their head, transportation, utilities, food, medical insurance, save for your retirement and childrens college education on $14.00 hr. show us all how. Be sure to include pictures of the home, car, clothes your family wears, and how much in savings you have.

Easy as she goes Compressor. Not all situations are the same. Maybe in your town all is normal, but there a lot of places that have gotten a little out of control.

I have friends in city government that make more with their pensions than they were making working. Really? How do you justify that? That's not speculation, that's fact. I know of two, close friends from different cities. One fire, one parks and rec.

Plus they retire pretty early. Another example of excess. The daughter of the parks and rec. person worked for the same city a few years. She quit and is at another job but is collecting a small retirement from the city. 41 years old getting about $100 a week for the rest of her life. Qualified for that after working for the city about 6 years.

When unemployed taxpayers see those kinds of things they understandably get a little upset.

[DJW]

Originally Posted by compressor#v

So it's the workers fault, city officials (management) couldn't manage?.

Keep the following facts in mind when you ask that question:

1) The City is Democrat, the people doing the negotiations on behalf of the City are Democrats, heavily supported by the very Unions they're negotiating with. That's exactly why FDR warned against allowing PEUs.

2) The City is in a similar position as any business when it comes to the threat of a strike. Should Company X stand their ground and let the strike continue and destroy the company? - or do you want to make concessions, even concessions that you know eventually will crush the company? - damned if you do damned if you don't. In this case, if you're a politician do you want to lock out the police, fire and sanitation workers? Especially when you know the majority of your political contributions are coming from their PACs?

3) Finally, this past Presidential election is all the proof you need that given the opportunity to fix our problems or kick the can down the road...Americans appear to always chose the later. Well, for Hostess and for many municipalities here in NY, the can just ran out of road.

A day of reckoning is coming for America too, and it's not far away. We voted for cake and ice-cream for ourselves today, but tomorrow we'll make our kids and grandkids eat sheit. IMO, it's shameful..but that's me...I'm a hater.

[Tequila SG]

I've never had a Twinkie, what do I do now!!!!!!!

[spdrcr137]

Companies cannot manage due to unions.

[spdrcr137]

DJW you have hit the nail on the head.