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Old 12-12-2012, 07:25 AM   #181 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Waffen View Post
And to think I believed it was my fault for having a wife.


w
From what I'm gathering, it's ok to have a wife as long as you don't either call her your wife or say or do anything to indicate that you are in any way attracted to her. Actually, I'm a little confused about whether or not it really is ok to have a wife.

I've also started wondering what category a man would come under if he said he has an ex-wife, but has not remarried. Or if he is single and never married. What would he be proclaiming? Bi-sexual maybe?
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:36 AM   #182 (permalink)
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I'm not going to address the individual posts directed toward me in the last day in this topic. It would just be going over the same things again and again. With no animosity toward any of you, I believe you are living in a dream world when you say your negative feelings toward homosexuality do not affect your relationships with gay and lesbian family members. This is something I know about and have shared with each of you in this topic and other topics individually. It is up to you now to do with that whatever you want.

I heard one new age conception of what Hell might be. After one dies, everyone gets to learn the negative effects of everything one has ever said and done, and has to live with that knowledge for eternity. Everyone.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:30 AM   #183 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
I'm not going to address the individual posts directed toward me in the last day in this topic. It would just be going over the same things again and again. With no animosity toward any of you, I believe you are living in a dream world when you say your negative feelings toward homosexuality do not affect your relationships with gay and lesbian family members. This is something I know about and have shared with each of you in this topic and other topics individually. It is up to you now to do with that whatever you want.

I heard one new age conception of what Hell might be. After one dies, everyone gets to learn the negative effects of everything one has ever said and done, and has to live with that knowledge for eternity. Everyone.
Apparently you haven't really read or maybe understood what others are posting. If you didn't read it, I'll say it again. I know people that are gay. They come to the same gatherings I go to because they are friends of the family in one way or another. I don't condone their lifestyle, but I don't treat them differently because of it and I'm sure they would attest to this. They don't pull the gay card every time something doesn't go their way. They probably like the idea of gay marriage, I don't know. Has never come up because they don't make it a point at gatherings. They don't do things or exaggerate their mannerisms to make sure everyone knows they're gay (please don't try to tell me that sh!t doesn't happen). From all visible signs they are no different than anyone else and I get along with them fine. Some of them even tell some gay jokes that are far funnier than any I've heard from any heterosexual. They also don't sit around and whine about being treated different than straight people. Could this possibly be because of how they conduct themselves?

Now, how they act when they are in their element I have no idea. They could do all the stereotypical gay things. Point is, they have the good sense to know their audience. If a sheep walks into a pack of wolves and gets eaten, who's fault is it??? If you walk into a bar and start running your mouth chances are you're gonna get your ass kicked sooner or later. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'd bet if someone doesn't play the victim all the time there's a pretty good chance they won't become a victim.

BTW, one of my best friends in high school was gay. This was in the 70's when it wasn't as cool to be gay. He tried to hide it, but we all knew it. NOBODY treated him any differently than anyone else, and that was in a town that had their fair share of what some would call stupid hicks. He was always at our parties and we were always at his. I always liked him as a person because he was all around a good guy. We left high school and I talked to him from time to time and we would BS about life, where we had been, where we were going, the usual stuff. Do you want to know when that relationship fell apart? When he found out that I registered as a republican. I never treated him differently, he started treating me differently. So much for your victim BS.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:41 AM   #184 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
I heard one new age conception of what Hell might be. After one dies, everyone gets to learn the negative effects of everything one has ever said and done, and has to live with that knowledge for eternity. Everyone.
What if we translate this to the real physical world we live in today, without some pass to be accountable in some afterlife we may or may not have, and just treat others with basic human rights and dignity? What a concept! Treat others how you expect to be treated, regardless of how much one disagrees with another.
Tim
PS Everyone knows your orientation....and your politics, and how you tend not to directly answer many real and viable questions (much as you did above again), don't always act like the victim and people may not treat you as such. For the most part, nobody cares that you are gay, we are just fellow members of a forum that shares interest in Harleys.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:33 PM   #185 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
I'm not going to address the individual posts directed toward me in the last day in this topic. It would just be going over the same things again and again. With no animosity toward any of you, I believe you are living in a dream world when you say your negative feelings toward homosexuality do not affect your relationships with gay and lesbian family members. This is something I know about and have shared with each of you in this topic and other topics individually. It is up to you now to do with that whatever you want.

I heard one new age conception of what Hell might be. After one dies, everyone gets to learn the negative effects of everything one has ever said and done, and has to live with that knowledge for eternity. Everyone.
I'm pretty sure everyone is already doing exactly that.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:22 PM   #186 (permalink)
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I tried as hard as I can without being a douche bag. I got nowhere. I did however find an interesting definition of a disorder that I think fits nicely here:

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder[1] in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity. This condition affects one percent of the population.[2][3] First formulated in 1968, it was historically called megalomania, and it is closely linked to egocentrism.
Stolen from HERE

So.......someone among us is a 1%er.......who would have thunk?


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Last edited by luvstoride; 12-12-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:43 PM   #187 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
I'm not going to address the individual posts directed toward me in the last day in this topic. It would just be going over the same things again and again. With no animosity toward any of you, I believe you are living in a dream world when you say your negative feelings toward homosexuality do not affect your relationships with gay and lesbian family members. This is something I know about and have shared with each of you in this topic and other topics individually. It is up to you now to do with that whatever you want.

I heard one new age conception of what Hell might be. After one dies, everyone gets to learn the negative effects of everything one has ever said and done, and has to live with that knowledge for eternity. Everyone.
That "new age" view of hell is an odd twist on the 2nd Corinthians 5:10 passage that describes each saved soul's audience at the judgement seat of Christ where all earthly actions will be reviewed as a determiner of each individual's place on the New Earth.


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Old 12-12-2012, 05:56 PM   #188 (permalink)
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Hey look, you Californians get to pay for some more Obamaphones. Lucky!

http://www.turnto23.com/news/local-n...phones-service

http://youtu.be/tpAOwJvTOio
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:34 PM   #189 (permalink)
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Hey look, you Californians get to pay for some more Obamaphones. Lucky!
This is so nice :

Quote:
The goal of the program is to keep the poor and homeless in touch with family, potential employers and others crucial to improving their lives.
If you want free stuff, move here.

If you are an illegal alien, move here.

If you are a statist leftist, move here.

If you are immoral, move here.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:38 PM   #190 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by luvstoride View Post
I tried as hard as I can without being a douche bag. I got nowhere. I did however find an interesting definition of a disorder that I think fits nicely here:

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder[1] in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity. This condition affects one percent of the population.[2][3] First formulated in 1968, it was historically called megalomania, and it is closely linked to egocentrism.
Stolen from HERE

So.......someone among us is a 1%er.......who would have thunk?


Do you understand that a mental health professional who would make a diagnosis on the basis of what you know about me and use the language you use to describe me would be doing something that would be considered to be unethical and unprofessional?
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:40 PM   #191 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hamilton View Post
This is so nice :



If you want free stuff, move here.

If you are an illegal alien, move here.

If you are a statist leftist, move here.

If you are immoral, move here.
If you are a productive member of society, you're not paying your fair share so pay up motherfukker! Haha, too bad for the free-loaders the productive people are moving out.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:42 PM   #192 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
Do you understand that a mental health professional who would make a diagnosis on the basis of what you know about me and use the language you use to describe me would be doing something that would be considered to be unethical and unprofessional?
Good thing he's not a mental health professional. But then that never stopped you from making amateur diagnoses either. 1%'er
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:46 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
That "new age" view of hell is an odd twist on the 2nd Corinthians 5:10 passage that describes each saved soul's audience at the judgement seat of Christ where all earthly actions will be reviewed as a determiner of each individual's place on the New Earth.


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This is the kind of interaction I wish I could have more often with you and others here, not said in anger but with a desire to inform and discuss.

I don't know much about the details Christianity, certainly very little other than the Gospels. This is an interesting concept. The Jewish concept of Hell is much more vague. The word Hell is derived I believed from the Hebrew word Shoel, which literally means "earth", as in being buried. There is a more developed Jewish conception of Hell but that is never much talked about. While there is a concept of Heaven and Hell in Judaism, the afterlife is not much referred to.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Apparently you haven't really read or maybe understood what others are posting. If you didn't read it, I'll say it again. I know people that are gay. They come to the same gatherings I go to because they are friends of the family in one way or another. I don't condone their lifestyle, but I don't treat them differently because of it and I'm sure they would attest to this. They don't pull the gay card every time something doesn't go their way. They probably like the idea of gay marriage, I don't know. Has never come up because they don't make it a point at gatherings. They don't do things or exaggerate their mannerisms to make sure everyone knows they're gay (please don't try to tell me that sh!t doesn't happen). From all visible signs they are no different than anyone else and I get along with them fine. Some of them even tell some gay jokes that are far funnier than any I've heard from any heterosexual. They also don't sit around and whine about being treated different than straight people. Could this possibly be because of how they conduct themselves?

Now, how they act when they are in their element I have no idea. They could do all the stereotypical gay things. Point is, they have the good sense to know their audience. If a sheep walks into a pack of wolves and gets eaten, who's fault is it??? If you walk into a bar and start running your mouth chances are you're gonna get your ass kicked sooner or later. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'd bet if someone doesn't play the victim all the time there's a pretty good chance they won't become a victim.

BTW, one of my best friends in high school was gay. This was in the 70's when it wasn't as cool to be gay. He tried to hide it, but we all knew it. NOBODY treated him any differently than anyone else, and that was in a town that had their fair share of what some would call stupid hicks. He was always at our parties and we were always at his. I always liked him as a person because he was all around a good guy. We left high school and I talked to him from time to time and we would BS about life, where we had been, where we were going, the usual stuff. Do you want to know when that relationship fell apart? When he found out that I registered as a republican. I never treated him differently, he started treating me differently. So much for your victim BS.
BOUTYM - First I want to thank you for taking time time to write such an involved response.

I have no doubt that in social interactions, such as family gatherings you do not treat any gay person differently because they are gay. It is extremely rare now a days for anyone to say anything in appropriate to my face. About the only place where i interact where there are a lot of offensive statements is this forum.

So let me go back to the line that stands out for me. It is when you said "I don't condone their lifestyle". With all due respect, I would believe that message gets likely across to them one way or another, if by no other way than your body language and what you choose to say or not say, and the gay people around you are probably reticent to talk with you about a bunch of this they might otherwise talk about if you felt more positive to what you call their "lifestyle".

I do not judge you negatively for your feelings. If you act on those feelings, that would be another story. I believe you, like myself, was sold a bill of goods concerning homosexuality when you (and I) were growing up. I had to find out the truth or else I would have had a miserable life (can you imagine if I did was I was suppose to do and married a woman for whom I had no sexual or romantic attraction?). I know I didn't have any more choice about being gay than you had about being born heterosexual. If you truly believed (as I do) that God made some people homosexual on purpose, would you still not condone the gay "lifestyle"? It took me years to get clear on this subject and I had a lot of motivation. Most others who don't have motivation go to their graves not realizing the impact their negative view on homosexuality had on their relationships with gay family members and friends.

I have lived in San Francisco throughout the entire AIDS crisis. I watched about half of my friends and acquaintances died from this disease until medication was developed in the mid 90's. I watched (literally) a number of my friends die surrounded by friends but no family members since the family did not condone their lifestyle, and some expressed that AIDS was God's will and punishment for being homosexual. I also watched how AIDS changed some family's view and the parents suddenly woke up and apologized to their dying son. I literally say this a number of times. Those scenes were always gut wrenching.

So I don't think you are monster. I'll be honest and say I don't like you much, that I think you are verbally aggressive and sarcastic much of the time. But I suspect you don't like me much either and wouldn't enjoy time with me any more than I would enjoy time with you.

I will acknowledge being hyper vigilant here about what I consider inappropriate or offensive comments regarding homosexuality (I was also active and "in your face" in the Civil Rights struggles in the 1060's). Sometimes that is necessary. It is a difficult job (trust me on that), but it is work that needs to be done. No one else before me seems to have been doing the work, so I took up that mantle. I hope we all can find some way to leave the world a better place.

But I do thank you for engaging in this level of conversation and hope that some of what I have written here or elsewhere gets through. I wish you well and growth in this area.

Namaste. (A Hindu greeting that means "I see the God within you").
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:39 PM   #195 (permalink)
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PS Everyone knows your orientation....and your politics, and how you tend not to directly answer many real and viable questions (much as you did above again), don't always act like the victim and people may not treat you as such. For the most part, nobody cares that you are gay, we are just fellow members of a forum that shares interest in Harleys.
Tim - Yes, probably everyone who reads these r and p posts knows my romantic orientation, but I will submit that you and most people here have little idea as to what I believe other than I am a "liberal" (or to some a "libtard"). I would suggest that past that, where I fit into the big picture, what I believe on a number of subjects it would be a mystery. Some who have been paying attention might have gotten by now that I am a progressive with a heavy streak of libertarianism. But I suspect most, including you, can only say I am a liberal or I tend to vote Democrat.

As for my acting like a "victim". I'm actually the opposite. The victim just sits there and takes it and complains about being a victim. Simply pointing out the inequalities of society is not being a victim. Being a victim is a special mind set. One of the characteristics of a victim is that the victim is always looking for someone to rescue them from an aggressor. Do I seem like I am looking for a rescuer to you?

And as for your suggestion that I don't "tend not to directly answer many real and viable questions", you are partially correct. An awful lot of the questions I am asked do not deserve a response. They are really not questions most of the time but statements posed as questions. The statement being made is usually how stupid I am for believing what I believe. A number of so called questions are actually set ups for someone who hopes to pounce on my answers. So I disregard those questions and will continue to do so. Questions asked in good will are another subject. I try to respond to those questions. But the other (non)questions, I just ignore. Often someone will ask a load of questions and when I don't respond to each and every one in the order in which they were asked, I am told I "tend not to directly answer many real and viable questions".

So I hope you can accept this. There is much we both can learn from each other. Mechanically I an not very knowledgeable and have read carefully some of your technical answers and learned from them. I hope you also learn from some of my posts.
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