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Old 11-09-2012, 12:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Uncle Salty is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Psycle View Post
For those of us who like myself do not remember the details of the Tax Reform Act of 1964, please tell us what the impact of this would mean regarding tax rates for different levels of income.
There were many nominal tax rate levels in that era starting at 16% and topping at 77%. The top level, 77% was on income above $400,000. Adjusting for inflation, that would be about $3 million today.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:35 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by guydoc77 View Post
But Casey, you have to also agree that everyone (probably including yourself?) is for spending cuts as long as THEIR piece of the pie doesn't shrink. Therein lies the problem. Therein lies the paralysis in both parties. Therein lies a substantial portion of the "fear mongering" used by BOTH parties during any recent campaign. Therein lies the meat of lobbying.

I'm on record on this forum stating that, as long as there were across the board, substantial spending cuts, cuts that will hurt everybody at least a little, I'm all for paying more in taxes, and, since my income is largely dependent on one of the entitlement programs (Medicare), willing to take a pay cut. [/B]Right now, with essentially uncontrolled spending by BOTH parties in recent years, I'm not for paying more than my present roughly 50% of my income in various taxes. Why would I be? Seriously. Your analogy is a good one. But, the behavior demonstrated by both parties over the last 20-30 years is to ask for more of my money in various taxes, many of them "hidden", and not cut spending in any meaningful fashion. In fact, to score political points and retain power, they increase spending.

If it cannot be acknowledged by BOTH parties that the present level of spending on "entitlement programs" cannot be sustained, regardless of the tax rate, then no progress will be made. And yes, that includes Medicare spending, including MY "reimbursement" level. I will gladly take a cut in pay AND pay more in taxes IF there light at the end of the tunnel is visible. But, in my case, to single me (doctors in general) out as fraudulent, and the sole reason Medicare is broke, isn't going to fly with me. It may score significant political points with the sheeple but it DOESN'T solve the problem at hand. In reality,Doc reimbursement represents only a small fraction of total Medicare expenditure. I will get the exact percentage if you like but I don't want to put an erroneous figure on here. If you accept this though, and please do, the implications in the case of Medicare are obvious. Cutting Medicare will simply have to mean a sea change in medical care for elderly. It will have to. And we all know how both parties have used that against each other. And Medicare is only one of these programs. Imagine the sea change required in all of these programs. I simply do not think that any politician in either party has the balls to do this. So, no, I'm not eager to pay a higher rate in taxes presently. Without associated real spending cuts, those higher tax rates, largely, become nothing more than symbolism
Doc, I'm with you 150 percent. But although I am also skeptical, I believe that if the country steps back from the rigid ideologies and does a deal where everyones loses something, we might all win down the road. I'm also willing to do my part. I don't like it, but I'd do it.

I'll tell you -- I would consider going off the fiscal cliff. Let the Bush tax cuts expire and allow the sequester to proceed. I don't think anyone would argue that wouldn't be a meaningful attack on the deficit. But people on both sides say to do so would wreak havoc on the economy, at least temporarily. I'm sure it would, but maybe that's what needs to be done. It does have the benefit of being automatic.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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No question it would wreak economic havoc.
But I do think it could be temporary. I did say could.
I don't know though if the average joe/jane would really know what hit them, and, therefore, I don't think it would be tolerated.
You may not share my cynicism but I have come to believe that the average joe/jane doesn't really think any farther ahead than the keyboard of their cellphone anymore.
Of course that is a huge part of the problem as well.
By the way, it looks like that percentage is 12.3.
I've attached a PDF file.
Go to page 16. Page 10 if you scroll.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2011 Medicare expenditures.pdf (2.29 MB, 5 views)
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guydoc77 View Post
No question it would wreak economic havoc.
But I do think it could be temporary. I did say could.
I don't know though if the average joe/jane would really know what hit them, and, therefore, I don't think it would be tolerated.
You may not share my cynicism but I have come to believe that the average joe/jane doesn't really think any farther ahead than the keyboard of their cellphone anymore.
Of course that is a huge part of the problem as well.
By the way, it looks like that percentage is 12.3.
I've attached a PDF file.
Go to page 16. Page 10 if you scroll.
I can't seem to open the document beyond the front page. But I believe you. I have no doubt there will be changes to Medicare, both in terms of coverage and reimbursements. I always tell people my idea of medical insurance is working hard to stay fit and healthy in the first place, for as long as I can.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Two posts in a row by Doc that are posts of the month, maybe the year. Way to go Doc. Run for office! I'd vote for you.

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Old 11-09-2012, 04:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher View Post
The 2012 presidential election often focused on class warfare with Republicans seemingly in the wealthy/upper class corner, and the Democrats in the middle/low class corner. That said, I found it very interesting that President Obama actually won the popular vote in eight out of ten of the wealthiest counties in the United States. What's up with that?



The whole article is here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-...154837437.html

Comments?
Those are all liberal counties in liberal states or in very liberal parts of the states such as Fairfax County in Virginia for example. This would have been more of a shocker if any of those counties had voted for Romney! I think rich or poor they all would have voted the same. I notice there was no breakdown of Republicans to democrats in those counties. I would be willing to bet the voting reflects the demographic of Republicans to democrats in each of those counties.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Uncle Salty View Post
The tax increases that democrats suggest are a drop in the bucket. The spending cuts that have been suggested are minimal at best compared to the problem. They can't even agree on solutions that won't come close to solving the problem. Bi-partisanship? Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.
What always happens and will likely be the case this time is the democrats propose tax increases that go into effect immediatly or very soon in exchange for spending cuts that go into effect at some distant point in the future. What ultimately happens is the taxes go into effect but tthe spending cuts never happen. It is very predictable. If Obama and the democrats are really serious about cutting the deficit, spending cuts and tax increases will both go into effect at the same time.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. -Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Probably true utrvp.
I see all the media types are hysterically reporting that O is insisting on expiration of the "Bush Tax Cuts" for those making over $250K.
See my above post(s).
While it may make some FEEL good, it won't accomplish **** as far as debt reduction.
And I have little doubt that the spending "cuts" will not be immediate and will not be actual cuts. Only in the Federal Govt is a reduction in the rate of growth of a sacred cow program considered to be a "cut".
To use Casey's analogy, it would be like the family who goes into debt saying that they will spend a few hundred less on the credit card every month instead of stopping the credit card spending altogether and paying it off.
Like I said, they don't have the balls. None of them.

Lefty, thanks for the props.
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