Why Obama won - Page 4 : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums
» Sponsors

» Insurance
Go Back   V-Twin Forum : Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Forums > V-Twin Forum Non-Motorcycle Related Forums > Religion & Politics
New User? Register Forgot Password

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-09-2012, 07:36 AM   #46 (permalink)
IronButt
 
James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Villa Park, Il
Posts: 13,299
James is reading this now saying WTF is this? James is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
The only solution to the problem is to annex Mexico.
We could just move all of our jobs to Mexico and then we can do to them what they do to us.
James is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-09-2012, 07:36 AM   #47 (permalink)
Lifetime Premium
 
Fred1369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 13,924
Fred1369 is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher View Post
Its very plausible that Texas will be a highly contested state in 2016, mostly because of the continued influx of Mexican immigrants, the large majority of whom vote Democratic. I predict that Texas will become a huge battleground state with its (currently) 38 electoral votes.
The popular vote numbers for this 2012 election in Texas were:
4,555,799 (Romney) to 3,294,440 (Obama).

Influx of Mexican immigrants. How many of them vote? Do you think they line up at the polls snickering because they don't have to show ID? Are the ballots in Espanol?
__________________


Seek the truth. Only then will justice and mercy be yours. Do not make religion your trade nor piety a profession.
Fred1369 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 08:29 AM   #48 (permalink)
IronButt
 
thrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Crescent City
Posts: 3,941
thrasher wants to know Dino or Syn?
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred1369 View Post
Influx of Mexican immigrants. How many of them vote? Do you think they line up at the polls snickering because they don't have to show ID? Are the ballots in Espanol?
Both the recent census data showing steadily increasing Mexican population, and 2012 voting data showing steadily increasing Democrat voting clearly shows a relationship between the two.

I don't recall there being an option for Espanol on my ballot. Further, I had to show my ID and produce my signature before I was given assigned to a voting booth. I'm pleased that Texas supports the enforcement of having to show ID and requires a signature matching the one on the ID card.
__________________
Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.
If at first, you fail miserably, try the same thing again expecting different results.

thrasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 11:30 AM   #49 (permalink)
not sober all the time
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NW Louisiana
Posts: 3,030
Uncle Salty is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey0211 View Post
He is a Tea Party extremist who opposed raising the debt ceiling. That's one.
Just using that would qualify most of the democrats in congress during 2006 as a politician you don't like. Or is it only republicans that oppose raising the debt ceiling on your sh!t list?
Uncle Salty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 11:47 AM   #50 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Casey0211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 5,973
Casey0211 wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Salty View Post
Just using that would qualify most of the democrats in congress during 2006 as a politician you don't like. Or is it only republicans that oppose raising the debt ceiling on your sh!t list?
Any comment about the other two? I thought I made it clear that I'm not a one-issue voter.

But go ahead and cluck all you want about the Democratic Party in 2006. The rest of us will focus on 2013 and beyond
Casey0211 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #51 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Casey0211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 5,973
Casey0211 wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred1369 View Post
Influx of Mexican immigrants. How many of them vote? Do you think they line up at the polls snickering because they don't have to show ID? Are the ballots in Espanol?
C'mon Fred -- I'm part of an influx if Irish immigrants. No doubt you're part of an influx of immigrants, too. An influx if immigrants doesn't mean illegal immigrants. There is a large Latino population in California that is just as American as you and me.

And yes -- here in California we do have ballots in Spanish. And Vietnamese, I might add.
Casey0211 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 12:17 PM   #52 (permalink)
not sober all the time
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NW Louisiana
Posts: 3,030
Uncle Salty is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey0211 View Post
Any comment about the other two? I thought I made it clear that I'm not a one-issue voter.

But go ahead and cluck all you want about the Democratic Party in 2006. The rest of us will focus on 2013 and beyond
So in a few years you'll be OK with those that recently opposed raising the debt ceiling?

As for the other two issues. I believe that abortion is murder so I agree with Rand's opinion although if the current abortion law remains as is, I'm not going to lose sleep.

After reading about the civil rights issue it seems that Rand took a typical libertarian view. Many believe, myself included, that government should limit their authority whenever possible. If an owner of a gas station decide not to sell gas to a caucasian, I'm fine with that. If he decides to not sell gas to an asian, that's cool with me. The owner of the business should be able to choose who he does business with. He's probably hurting himself but if that's what he wants, fine with me. Same with smoking, if an owner of a restaurant wants to allow smoking in his establishment, the government should not restrict him from it. I won't go there though.

Rand clarified his position with several statements including this.

Quote:
"Let me be clear: I support the Civil Rights Act because I overwhelmingly agree with the intent of the legislation, which was to stop discrimination in the public sphere and halt the abhorrent practice of segregation and Jim Crow laws." "I think that there was an overriding problem in the South so big that it did require federal intervention in the '60s. And it stems from things that I said, you know, had been going on, really, 120 years too long. And the Southern states weren't correcting it. And I think there was a need for federal intervention."
Uncle Salty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-09-2012, 12:31 PM   #53 (permalink)
IronButt
 
Casey0211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 5,973
Casey0211 wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Salty View Post
So in a few years you'll be OK with those that recently opposed raising the debt ceiling?

As for the other two issues. I believe that abortion is murder so I agree with Rand's opinion although if the current abortion law remains as is, I'm not going to lose sleep.

After reading about the civil rights issue it seems that Rand took a typical libertarian view. Many believe, myself included, that government should limit their authority whenever possible. If an owner of a gas station decide not to sell gas to a caucasian, I'm fine with that. If he decides to not sell gas to an asian, that's cool with me. The owner of the business should be able to choose who he does business with. He's probably hurting himself but if that's what he wants, fine with me. Same with smoking, if an owner of a restaurant wants to allow smoking in his establishment, the government should not restrict him from it. I won't go there though.

Rand clarified his position with several statements including this.
Then Rand Paul is obviously your guy.

But when racial discrimination becomes a manifestation of "freedom," we have entered an evil, Orwellian world, in my opinion. I don't speak Newspeak and I don't like Rand Paul. Moreover, I have a feeling that your defense of the indefensible is the result of never having had to face that kind of discrimination yourself.

Last edited by Casey0211; 11-09-2012 at 12:43 PM.
Casey0211 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 08:57 AM   #54 (permalink)
IronButt
 
hondo2doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 386
hondo2doc wants to know Dino or Syn?
Why Obama won??? Well in short marketing, marketing, marketing!

To Casey, MP, Thrasher and any other supporters of Obama I say congrats. You have earned your victory lap, spiking the football, endzone dance etc... To the victor go the spoils.

I would caution any one into reading to much in to Obama's re-election though based on the closeness of the final popular vote.

Imho most folks are not engaged in watching and keeping track of day to day politics, debt, deficit etc... They do vote but are very subject to suggestive marketing. And is this sense Obama and his team did a great job of convincing the average casual voter that he was better suited to be re-elected than try a new guy.

Considering Obamas track record of failure and blame. Americans can be and have been very swayed many times. Remeber pet rocks.....need I say more.

Imho it is not a right or left issue at all. It merely reflects that a majority of voters (be it a small majority) bought, liked and wanted the Obama maketing message. The reason I say this is because both sides lie so much that all reality is blurred. Fact is when folks are unsure of what is good or true or the best path they will usually chose what is familiar. As was done in this case it appears.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Motorcycle.com Free App
hondo2doc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 09:04 AM   #55 (permalink)
IronButt
 
James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Villa Park, Il
Posts: 13,299
James is reading this now saying WTF is this? James is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo2doc View Post
Why Obama won??? Well in short marketing, marketing, marketing!
I think the opposite is true. We had 4 years of Obama. Even the slow people could figure him out. All we heard from Romney was he had a plan...but he wouldn't tell anybody what it was. Romney didn't even know. Also Romney supposedly cared about our country and wouldn't even tell Obama what it was. Romney didn't care or he would have given advice a long time ago. All he cared about was getting elected and he thought just being on the other team would be enough.

Romney the almighty successful businessman couldn't even market himself. He lost and is out of business.

Last edited by James; 11-10-2012 at 09:06 AM.
James is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 09:04 AM   #56 (permalink)
IronButt
 
thrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Crescent City
Posts: 3,941
thrasher wants to know Dino or Syn?
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo2doc View Post
Why Obama won??? Well in short marketing, marketing, marketing!

To Casey, MP, Thrasher and any other supporters of Obama I say congrats. You have earned your victory lap, spiking the football, endzone dance etc... To the victor go the spoils.

I would caution any one into reading to much in to Obama's re-election though based on the closeness of the final popular vote.

Imho most folks are not engaged in watching and keeping track of day to day politics, debt, deficit etc... They do vote but are very subject to suggestive marketing. And is this sense Obama and his team did a great job of convincing the average casual voter that he was better suited to be re-elected than try a new guy.

Considering Obamas track record of failure and blame. Americans can be and have been very swayed many times. Remeber pet rocks.....need I say more.

Imho it is not a right or left issue at all. It merely reflects that a majority of voters (be it a small majority) bought, liked and wanted the Obama maketing message. The reason I say this is because both sides lie so much that all reality is blurred. Fact is when folks are unsure of what is good or true or the best path they will usually chose what is familiar. As was done in this case it appears.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Motorcycle.com Free App
Your assessment is really a how Obama won as opposed to a why Obama won, but it is a pretty fair and accurate assessment of how nonetheless. At the end of the day, though, it boils down to a matter of trust, and I think America trusts Obama more which is why he got elected.
__________________
Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.
If at first, you fail miserably, try the same thing again expecting different results.


Last edited by thrasher; 11-10-2012 at 09:07 AM.
thrasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 09:25 AM   #57 (permalink)
IronButt
 
hondo2doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 386
hondo2doc wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
I think the opposite is true. We had 4 years of Obama. Even the slow people could figure him out. All we heard from Romney was he had a plan...but he wouldn't tell anybody what it was. Romney didn't even know. Also Romney supposedly cared about our country and wouldn't even tell Obama what it was. Romney didn't care or he would have given advice a long time ago. All he cared about was getting elected and he thought just being on the other team would be enough.

Romney the almighty successful businessman couldn't even market himself. He lost and is out of business.
You could be 100% correct James that it was Romney's weaknesses more than Obama's strengths.


Sent from my SPH-D710 using Motorcycle.com Free App
hondo2doc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 09:28 AM   #58 (permalink)
IronButt
 
hondo2doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 386
hondo2doc wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher View Post
Your assessment is really a how Obama won as opposed to a why Obama won, but it is a pretty fair and accurate assessment of how nonetheless. At the end of the day, though, it boils down to a matter of trust, and I think America trusts Obama more which is why he got elected.
You are correct...it is how he got there. And I think you point about trust falls in line with American voters being at a crossroads and chosing what they knew, or as you put it what they trusted. As apposed to an unknown (Romney).

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Motorcycle.com Free App
hondo2doc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 09:38 AM   #59 (permalink)
not sober all the time
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NW Louisiana
Posts: 3,030
Uncle Salty is reading this now saying WTF is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher View Post
Your assessment is really a how Obama won as opposed to a why Obama won, but it is a pretty fair and accurate assessment of how nonetheless. At the end of the day, though, it boils down to a matter of trust, and I think America trusts Obama more which is why he got elected.
Trust was a big issue but I think it was a vote of the lesser of two evils. I don't think a majority of the registered voters actually trust Obama to be an effective leader or believe in most of his agenda. I think the majority just trusted Romney less. All of Romney's opponents (republican primary candidates, democrats and third party candidates) used his past to effectively paint him as someone to fear and be wary of. He didn't have the charisma to gain the attention or trust of the younger crowd or the middle and lower income group. His forte is with upper income, higher educated people. Someone like Rubio would have done better than Romney to get votes. Had he run, Obama wouldn't be president next term. It would not even have been close.

edit: but I don't believe he would be eligible to run for president.

Last edited by Uncle Salty; 11-10-2012 at 10:20 AM. Reason: added comment
Uncle Salty is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2012, 11:46 AM   #60 (permalink)
IronButt
 
thrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Crescent City
Posts: 3,941
thrasher wants to know Dino or Syn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Salty View Post
Trust was a big issue but I think it was a vote of the lesser of two evils. I don't think a majority of the registered voters actually trust Obama to be an effective leader or believe in most of his agenda. I think the majority just trusted Romney less. All of Romney's opponents (republican primary candidates, democrats and third party candidates) used his past to effectively paint him as someone to fear and be wary of. He didn't have the charisma to gain the attention or trust of the younger crowd or the middle and lower income group. His forte is with upper income, higher educated people. Someone like Rubio would have done better than Romney to get votes. Had he run, Obama wouldn't be president next term. It would not even have been close.

edit: but I don't believe he would be eligible to run for president.
Pretty level headed and thoughtful response.

I am a swing voter, and the part of your above assessment I bold'd pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. To me, "the lesser of two evils", as you put it, is still an element of trust.
__________________
Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.
If at first, you fail miserably, try the same thing again expecting different results.

thrasher is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the V-Twin Forum : Harley-Davidson Motorcycle Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself. WE WILL SEND A CONFIRMATION EMAIL TO THE ADDRESS YOU PROVIDE. If the email address is NOT VALID, you will not be given access to the system!
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
(C)2001-2012 V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved (C)2001- V-twinForum.com All Rights Reserved
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Forum Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum Kawasaki Ninja 250SL Forum