Hello I must be going II - Page 2 : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

Shockwave · 07-03-2009, 08:32 AM

The UN is the biggest hindrance we have to regaining superpower status. And I don't believe I mentioned genocide. War is between countries, not races.

HiAngle · 07-03-2009, 08:52 AM

Well DJ's definition still fits-

Genocide:

–noun- the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

In any event, you're not even going to get anybody at the Pentagon to support your course of action.

Shockwave · 07-03-2009, 09:16 AM

Yes it would still fit if the purpose was to exterminate a group. Would you consider what we did to Japan genocide?
And I know, Washington would never go for it. That's a shame.

Casey0211 · 07-03-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockwave

Yes it would still fit if the purpose was to exterminate a group. Would you consider what we did to Japan genocide?
And I know, Washington would never go for it. That's a shame.

As I recall from the history books, Japan attacked us. Seems to me that once that happened, all bets were off. I don't consider it genocide at all, but rather a sad ending that Japan brought upon itself.

Shockwave · 07-03-2009, 03:33 PM

You recall correctly Casey. And I concede that our current enemy did not attack us as a formal nation declaring war. Perhaps that is where the problem lies. Warfare has changed dramatically over the past 60 or so years with the US losing the advantage. If we had a country to declare war on then maybe the process would be different.

HiAngle · 07-03-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockwave

Warfare has changed dramatically over the past 60 or so years with the US losing the advantage.

Oh, do tell. I'm all ears to hear how the US and our military has lost its edge since 1949.

Shockwave · 07-03-2009, 03:50 PM

How many US ground troops died in Japan when we bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
We are fighting a "pick and choose" war instead of blowing the whole damn area to hell. Looks like a loss of advantage to me. The idea is to win not make friends.

Casey0211 · 07-03-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockwave

You recall correctly Casey. And I concede that our current enemy did not attack us as a formal nation declaring war. Perhaps that is where the problem lies. Warfare has changed dramatically over the past 60 or so years with the US losing the advantage. If we had a country to declare war on then maybe the process would be different.

True. But there are other problems with using nuclear weapons.

World War II was a global horror that had already taken 50 million lives or so. It was total war in which civilian casulaties outnumbered military ones. There were convential bombings that took more lives than the atom bombings. Although the conflicts we now face are certainly significant, they don't have the character of a desperate struggle that World War II had.

Also, we are not the only nation with an atom bomb. Who knows what the reaction of our adversaries would be to our using one. Probably the same as ours if Russia or China used one. It could get really ugly.

For the United States to use one first in a conventional war would make us a pariah in the rest of the world, even among our friends. Of course, some people say they don't care what others think, but I personally don't want the United States to be the English-speaking equivalent of Kim Jon Il. I don't think they really do either.

Shockwave · 07-03-2009, 04:28 PM

I have to agree about the nukes. This should be a "total war" by all means. As I recall, the world trade center wasn't a military instillation and those who died were not soldiers.
We could carpet bomb our enemy into practically nothing but that would be a big political no-no. The unpopular part of carpet bombing is that you kill non-combatants like women and children. Well folks, if you don't then you get to fight a never ending war.

HiAngle · 07-03-2009, 10:24 PM

Shock,

You're not a student of history. War is not just about blowing $hit up. You can find similarities between the American Revolution and fighting the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a matter of fact, my unit is soing a staff ride in a few months and we're discussing the similarities between the Sons of Liberty and the Sons of Iraq.

Shockwave · 07-03-2009, 10:37 PM

So we no longer kill the enemy? No wonder this thing is dragging out. Silly me. Maybe I'll invite a few Taliban and North Korean folks over for dinner.

HiAngle · 07-03-2009, 11:06 PM

Yeah Shock, those of us in the military are afraid to shoot back. Whatever. Pull your head out of your 4th point of contact. Here's a thought.. you live in fantasy land and the rest of us live in reality. But I'm curious, your experience in Iraq and/or Afghanistan is what?

Anja · 07-03-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaujames7

And May we as a nation Bless all the Soldiers who come home.

As a member of a generation which didn't do a very good job of this, I second the opinion!

These kids are coming back to us with record rates of psychological difficulties.

Shockwave · 07-03-2009, 11:37 PM

Angle, I never said anyone was afraid to shoot back. My comments are about policy, not soldiers. If the point of a war is to win then killing as many of the enemy makes sense. In recent wars we have had to root out and engage only those who can be positively identified as the enemy. God forbid any civilian be injured, there is always hell to pay.
Anymore we don't fight a war but rather play police/social worker.
Quite frankly, it wouldn't bother me one bit if we eliminated all the ragheads world-wide but I'm sure that will twist someone's shorts.

DJW · 07-04-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockwave

Quite frankly, it wouldn't bother me one bit if we eliminated all the ragheads world-wide but I'm sure that will twist someone's shorts.

I'm pretty sure that is genocide by anyone's definition. Oh..and BTW, it was nice meeting ya' Shock...have a good life.