Timing issues after new top end : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

VENJEFF · 07-07-2006, 01:21 AM

Installed new pistons, rings and changed from solid lifters to Velvatouch hydraulic lifters and blocks and matching push rods. Had a hard time keeping the engine running after initial start up until lifters pumped up, but after a bit the engine is extremely quiet but ran like crap. I didnt touch the points. Didnt remove the point cover. When I went to time with a timing light, I couldnt find the mark. I rolled engine over by hand til I had the mark in the window and looked at my points. They were not even close to opening.I started the engine and slowly started moving the timing plate advanced. It started running better and better and finally idled good. I marked where the plate used to be. Now the marks are about 3/8" apart, way advanced. Im up against the other side of the slots and could probably go more. Used to be opposite side of slots. I still cannot see the timing mark. Pulled off plate and inspected advance unit. Rolls open and springs right back. Replaced points, condensor.
How did I change timing? Does going from solid to hydraulic make a difference? Did I screw something up? I also have a hell of alot of blow-by out the timing hole. I only have about 15 miles on it yet. second set of plugs look very good. Will this clear up after rings seat? Motor ran very well before tear down, just had low power and low compression.Thanx, Jeff

77Ironhead · 07-07-2006, 12:22 PM

I assume you are talking about an older Harley - Shovel, Pan?
I would not assume the timing was correct to begin with unless you had previously set it up yourself. In any case the points would not be opening with the timing mark in the hole unless you were to manually advance the points lobe. And yes you will get lots of oil out of the timing hole while the engine is running, for that reason alone I always do static timing on the old iron.

Use the ol cigarette paper deal or test lite while advancing the point cam with front cylinder on compression stroke and timing mark aligned in hole or a little toward front of hole for a little less advance.

VENJEFF · 07-07-2006, 08:57 PM

Shovel, sorry. Now I understand the advancing part, thanx for clearing that up. I still may be coming up on the wrong lobe . My indy guy today told me I should be coming up on the wide lobe. Im coming up on the narrow, tall lobe when at TDC front cylinder. Been running it in this configuration for years but if its wrong, could explain alot of dramas. Tricks or tool to turn the advance with the points mounted? Thanx, Jeff

VENJEFF · 07-08-2006, 03:02 AM

Did the timing light thing. Worked great. Found my cam lobe is very loose on the advance and is very worn where it engages the flyweights. The lobe was installed correctly. Flat spot in front of the roll pin. Will pick up new one tomorrow. Used a 90 degree needle nose to turn advance. Must be a better way. Had to move the condenser. This thing still runs like crap unless I advance the hell out of it. Great idle, but no power. Checked coil pimary and secondary, no problems. Changed plugs again. New blue streaks @.030. Removed carb and checked float level, cleaned and resealed. It was off , low. Still no change. New idle mixture screw, accel pump and o-rings. Now Im not sure if its electrical or fuel. When she coughs at idle, its through the carb only. Im going to readjust my new lifter blocks. Maybe they changed after running the rebuilt heads awhile.Jeff

L.Linkert · 07-08-2006, 05:27 AM

If you still have the dreadfull Kein carb and all new top end it will probably not run good.

newultraclassic · 07-08-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.Linkert

If you still have the dreadfull Kein carb and all new top end it will probably not run good.

Those early Keihins were bad, bad, bad. Get a CV or somesuch. Also, the points and weights need to go. Get a good single fire unit with matching coil and plug wires and relax and enjoy the ride.

VENJEFF · 07-08-2006, 04:15 PM

Its a super E, S&S, sorry. I found out this morning my cam lobe is very worn where the cam rubs the weights and making timing erratic.Its only 6 months old, custom chrome product. Im also having problem shutting off the accellerator pump. I screwed it all the way in and still pumping. Now Im set just a bit advanced and it runs ok. Not great, just ok. It backfires out the exhaust when I shut it off though.
I spent 8 hours on this damn thing last night and this morning. 3 new sets of blue streak points and condensors,6 plugs, wires,Timing light static timed. Plugs look fairly clear. This thing ran very well before I did the top end and thats why Im stumped. Im still leaning twards the velva touch lifter blocks changing something. The motor is extremely quiet, so Im not thinking there is a problem with the lifters, just that now my valve timing is very accurate as before with the solids.Jeff

L.Linkert · 07-08-2006, 11:07 PM

Hey thats great! I always hate to tell a guy he needs to buy a good carb.

Sounds like something is not right on carbs pump gismo, jammed with bug guts?

VENJEFF · 07-09-2006, 05:03 PM

Just installed a new pump assembly. Its pretty basic install. Double checked the seal area. It pumps when screw is completely turned in. Not supposed to do that and I have no clue how to fix. Maybe shorten the push rod a little? Jeff