Quick Question on Solid Lifters : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

Dan_Lockwood · 06-04-2005, 04:05 PM

I know all the pro's and con's on this subject, but the bottom line is that I have a '76 Shovel with less that 3,000 miles on the upper end and it has solid lifters. All parts, cam - lifters - chrome lifter blocks - pushrods - etc, were new at that time. I'm in the process of a restro on this bike and I'm down to the lifter area.

All the manuals list the hydraulics but obviously nothing on solids. I have an Andrews #2 cam with solids to go with it. How do I adjust the lifters as there is no way to actually feeler gauge anywhere? I'm thinking it's zero lash with so many quarter turns on the adjustment bolts, but I'm not sure.

What is the proper adjustment settings for this application?

Thanks to all in advance.

Dan

xxxflhrci · 06-04-2005, 04:07 PM

For solid lifter adjustment. You just adjust till there is no up and down free play, but not so tight as to prevent the rods from turning freely. Be sure to do your adjustments on a cold engine.

Dan_Lockwood · 06-04-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxflhrci

For solid lifter adjustment. You just adjust till there is no up and down free play, but not so tight as to prevent the rods from turning freely. Be sure to do your adjustments on a cold engine.

Thanks.

I remember from back in the '60s that when you did an adjustment on a VW you set them relatively tight and when the engine comes up to temp the expansion of the heads away from the crankcase create the correct lash needed.

Is this the same principle here?

So I take the slack out of the push rods, let them rotate slightly and then tighten them up... Sounds simple enough.

Thanks.

Dan

kb97 · 06-04-2005, 04:36 PM

make sure the the piston of the 2 lifters you are going to adjust is at top dead center compression stroke... the front cyl is on the compression stroke when the top dead center mark is in the timing plug hole...at that point you can adjust both front cyl pushrods so there is no play but a slight drag when you spin the pushrod with your FINGERS.... the rear cyl will be at tdcc about 345degrees after the front... i usaully shine a flashlight in the plug hole and can see the piston come up in the cyl ... after you adjust front and rear spin the motor 3 or 4 revolutions make sure the cyl is in the tdcc stroke again and check the adjustment again.... it is worth the extra steps and time to make sure the cyl is in the tdcc stroke because if it is not you will be readjusting loose pushrods or replacing a bent pushrod after you go down the road and the loose pushrod slaps around a few hundred times....hope this helps

petelogan · 06-05-2005, 07:06 AM

Yep. There are slight variations on how to get the right position. For instance, the Clymer manual says to adjust each lifter when its pushrod is at its lowest position.

But any procedure that does this is fine.

Does the Andrews require solids ? Personally I went back to hydraulics (bike had solids in when I got it) because I never could get the front exhaust lifter right. Always had a slight tick which annoyed the heck out of me

Pete

newultraclassic · 06-05-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_Lockwood

I know all the pro's and con's on this subject, but the bottom line is that I have a '76 Shovel with less that 3,000 miles on the upper end and it has solid lifters. All parts, cam - lifters - chrome lifter blocks - pushrods - etc, were new at that time. I'm in the process of a restro on this bike and I'm down to the lifter area.

All the manuals list the hydraulics but obviously nothing on solids. I have an Andrews #2 cam with solids to go with it. How do I adjust the lifters as there is no way to actually feeler gauge anywhere? I'm thinking it's zero lash with so many quarter turns on the adjustment bolts, but I'm not sure.

What is the proper adjustment settings for this application?

Thanks to all in advance.

Dan

It's just zero lash as you said. Get used to it. You're going to be doing it quite a bit. IMHO, solid lifters are a pain in the gizmatchee.

.

kb97 · 06-05-2005, 01:46 PM

if you adjust the pushrods properly with solid lifters there is NO reason you should have to constantly readjust them ...if they become loose and need readjustment you did not adjust them properly the first time! if the piston is not at top dead center compression stroke you are not adjusting the pushrod properly! i have seen it to many times people think they can tell by looking at the position of the lifter that it is in the lowest position of travel. if that lifter is raised just 1/16th of an inch guess what... you will have 1/16 of an inch of play in your adjustment. when you run the bike that play is enough to cause that pushrod to back out of adjustment even more.DO NOT think your lifter is all the down by looking at it ..know it is down because you are at tdcc...do it right the first time! dont take my word for it though look at page 4 instruction 4b of this instruction sheet
http://www.sscycle.com/temp/instruct...et/51-1035.pdf

newultraclassic · 06-05-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb97

if you adjust the pushrods properly with solid lifters there is NO reason you should have to constantly readjust them ...if they become loose and need readjustment you did not adjust them properly the first time! if the piston is not at top dead center compression stroke you are not adjusting the pushrod properly! i have seen it to many times people think they can tell by looking at the position of the lifter that it is in the lowest position of travel. if that lifter is raised just 1/16th of an inch guess what... you will have 1/16 of an inch of play in your adjustment. when you run the bike that play is enough to cause that pushrod to back out of adjustment even more.DO NOT think your lifter is all the down by looking at it ..know it is down because you are at tdcc...do it right the first time! dont take my word for it though look at page 4 instruction 4b of this instruction sheet
http://www.sscycle.com/temp/instruct...et/51-1035.pdf

They are noisy even at best, even when properly adjusted since there is nothing to take up the clearance once the engine heats up. If you get into a very hot environment or get stuck in traffic, they will get a lot noiser, too. The greater the noise, the greater the clearance. This costs you valve timing. To each his or her own.

.

kb97 · 06-05-2005, 08:57 PM

his question wasn't are they noisy or which should i use solid or hydrualic. as a matter of fact in his original post he CLEARLY stated he already knew the pros and cons he just wanted to know the proper way to adjust them.your reply that he would be adjusting them alot is just not the case if done properly the first time. i happen to run hydraulic lifters myself but there is no reason why he cannot run the solids with no problems with them coming out of adjustment. if you ran solids at one point and had to adjust them alot you were not doing it properly.

xxxflhrci · 06-05-2005, 09:05 PM

Solids have to be adjusted periodically.......

The original owner's manual with my Ironhead calls for adjustments every 2k. I'm sure Shovels call for similar intervals.

petelogan · 06-06-2005, 01:52 AM

Different in the US, where hydraulic lifters have been universal for many years, but just for information hydraulics never really caught on in Europe, where the solid lifter standard was superceded by overhead cams, although it is still in wide use.

Our implementation was slightly different, in that the pushrod itself really was/is solid, and the adjustment is on the rocker, but the same principles apply.

Normal service interval on these implementations would be around 3,000 to 5,000 miles, and they worked fine. No reason for a Harley to be any different IMHO.

kb97 - that's a good point about TDC, I hadn't thought about it that way.

NUC - am I missing something, or would the valve train not get tighter as things heat up ?

Like I said, I have nothing against solids, just my own inability to stop that one tick, which was probably because I didn't follow the TDC method

Pete

fauskar · 06-06-2005, 09:24 AM

I theory, once set you should have to re-adjust them. In real world applications: the pushrod adjust screws might bend or the ball-end flatten, or the the values begin to recess into their seats little over time.

Speedbump · 06-11-2005, 09:18 PM

I've also read where the cylinders will "grow" up to .060" from cold to hot, hence the ticking that sometimes occurs. Poor top end oiling is another culprit.