Starter and Relay Recommendations ?

[petelogan]

Never rains but it pours

My starter relay jammed closed and fried the starter motor.

I'm not too pissed, as I was thinking about a new high power starter anyway, so this just forces the issue.

Does anyone have recommendations for an aftermarket high power starter motor that I can get off the Internet. Needs to be an uprated unit, as my engine appears to be high compression, and the stock unit was having real difficulty turning it.

It's a 1979 80 cubic inch alternator setup.

Thanks for any help, guys.

Pete

[breeliz]

Get rid of that old hog and get yourself a new sled!

[newultraclassic]

The stock starter on Shovelheads is more than adequate for most applications. It sounds like you have other problems. Merely a stuck relay is no reason to spend hundreds more for a custom starter. There are lots of those available but I prefer stock. They're less expensive, too.,

I would check your wiring closely. The relays can stick and cause the starter to keep going but this is something you would hear when it happens. Starters can go out anyway after a few years. A newer, higher capacity starter will still rely on your basic electrical system. Get one with too much drain and you may find other problems. The electrical system on the Shovelheads it rather limited in capacity (32 amp alternator on latest ones)

I'd keep your Shovelhead and get a new bike too. That's what I did.

[petelogan]

Originally Posted by breeliz

Get rid of that old hog and get yourself a new sled!

You just jealous, Bree

Nailed the muffler. Now looks beautiful with new copper shroud and brass clamps. Bet you never seen one of them !!!!!!!!!!!

Noise is adjustable on the fly all the way from street legal to straight through, with no jetting changes. Turn it up for the country, down for the town

Total cost: 20c, and the 20c piece is still in there.

Eat your heart out, honey

Pete

[petelogan]

NUC, thanks. The starter definitely kept going, even with the engine off. So the relay definitely stuck. The starter stopped after 10 seconds or so, so either the relay let go, or the starter fried, as I first assumed. Or maybe the battery gave up, but I don't think so, because it's new, and was still showing 12.7/8 volts static afterwards.

I think I better pull the hardware out of there and look for more information.

The starter has always had a hard time since I got the bike. It kicks the engine over three or four revolutions, then hesitates, then goes again.

It normally starts the bike from cold in under ten seconds, though.

The reason I think the engine may be high compression is that I can't kick it over on the foot kicker. Don't mean can't start it, I mean can't kick it !! Just wind up standing on the kicker.

At first I thought it was maybe just that I ain't heavy enough, but a riding buddy who used to have a '69 FatBoy and weighs around 250 lbs also can't kick it !!!!!

Also, the previous owner is a performance nut mechanic, and the bike runs very strong. Like pull your arms out strong

So we figure it may be high compression, which is why I was already thinking about a higher power starter.

I'll pull the gear tomorrow and take a look.

Thanks for your help

Pete.

[Axle]

Pete, I have the same problem with my shovelhead (1977). When it was stock 74 inch with stock compression I could kick it very easily. After rebuilding it up to 80 inch specs I decided to install high compression pistons (10.5-1). Once the rings seated I could no longer kick start the bike. Like you said, the compression literally stops the pedal. I'm about 100 Kg and never had trouble kicking anything before. I installed a whole electric start setup (stock), as the bike was originally kick only. Same thing, the starter barely cranks it. but it WILL start. I've replaced the starter brushes twice already. After pricing the high torque starters, I've decided to pull the top end down this winter and put stock comp. pistons back in it. Piece o' piss afterall. Much cheaper and will probably run better given the fuel quality typically available. This doesn't really answer your question, just another alternative.

[petelogan]

That's good thinking, Axle.

My riding really doesn't need the power this bike has. I'm not sure what's in there. Can I tell from compression gauge readings ? Or at least guess ??

Pete

[petelogan]

Looks from the mag ads that the highest power starter out there is offered by techcycle.com, called the Tornado.

A look at their site says it's a NipponDenso starter.

I'm going to take a closer look, and see if I can get a NipponDenso Part Number. Given the volumes, I'm almost willing to bet this same part goes into a small *** or Korean car as well.

Bet they don't charge $500 for it

Pete

[petelogan]

Originally Posted by Axle

Like you said, the compression literally stops the pedal. I'm about 100 Kg and never had trouble kicking anything before.

Thanks for that, Axle - I was beginning to think I was turning into a girlie

Pete

[breeliz]

Originally Posted by petelogan

You just jealous, Bree

Nailed the muffler. Now looks beautiful with new copper shroud and brass clamps. Bet you never seen one of them !!!!!!!!!!!

Noise is adjustable on the fly all the way from street legal to straight through, with no jetting changes. Turn it up for the country, down for the town

Total cost: 20c, and the 20c piece is still in there.

Eat your heart out, honey

Pete

Hot Damn Pete!

This thing sounds more like a fricken lamp than a motorcycle!!

[tequacha]

uh what wt. oil you runnin? sounds like its a little thick

[petelogan]

Could be - though the behavior was the same with the previous 10W40 oil.

I'm running Castrol RS 10W60 full synthetic race oil now.

Pete

[petelogan]

Originally Posted by breeliz

Hot Damn Pete!

This thing sounds more like a fricken lamp than a motorcycle!!

Of course this is only prototype 2 stage. Still has a couple of appearance wrinkles, though it works fine. Good enough to try it out on the mandatory state technical inspection, but once they are cool with it, I'll do it again as pretty as I can get it.

I like your suggestion of black, Bree. Not only would it cover up the rust and stuff on the chrome, but I think it would look nice as a background for the copper, too.

This whole project came up because the inspectors changed the rules. Up to this year they could only warn you about noise. Now they require you to fit a new muffler if the noise is over limit.

So far, so good. $0.20c plays $250

Pete

[petelogan]

No - but a 25 year old bike is allowed to show her age a little

The real reason is I got to get through a mandatory state tech inspection. They changed the rules this year, so I just want to see what I can get away with.

Failing the inspection is the fastest and cheapest way to find out what the new rules are, so I'm doing what I can to attract their attention, so they will then have to tell me the new rules. That takes 3 mins, and a $5 retest fee next day with the new muffler. I get the mufflers in Germany, 'cos they're a fraction of the prices here, but I'm not sure what's legal.

I'll spring for a new one as soon as I know for sure

Pete