Electronics, tools for 81 FXS 80 Lowrider

[FXSGARY]

Looking for opinions about and options for a replacement ignition electronics for my 81 FXS 80 Lowrider. At the moment the engine, still stock, (15,000 miles) starts up without faults of any kind and performs very well. As far as I know the engine still has all the original parts, has never been apart, and still retains the original timing set up from the factory according to the last owner. If by chance someday I need to replace what is there, what would a suitable replacement be? I usually go by the rule if it ain't broke don't fix it, so I am only looking ahead.


Also, I need to replace the outer mainshaft trans seal. I have all the parts I need to make this work but the correct sockets. I understand that there are some rather large nuts and/or bolts? inside the primary. Can someone let me know what sizes I need to find to do this job with much stress?

Thanks,
Gary

[tequacha]

you will need what is called a fly swatter to hold clutch hub still, there is a lock on clutch hub nut, clutch hub nut is 1 1/8" deep well, left handed thread, youll need a puller, dont push clutch rod through kicker cover, on and on. you gotta buy, borrow our make a few tools. take it to a shop. or change tranny oil to 80/90 gear oil. leak will probably stop, it will shift smoother. a little stiff when its cold though. Ill sell you all the tools since dont have a shovel any more.cheap

[FXSGARY]

tequacha...what are you asking for the tools? As for the job at hand I can wrench pretty good and am not too squimish about working on my shovel. No shops for me. What do you mean when you say "don't push clutch rod through the kicker cover"?
I am using 80/90 now but trans still leaks.

Where is Goodyear, AZ? I have family in Tempe.


Gary

[tequacha]

[quote=FXSGARY]tequacha...what are you asking for the tools? As for the job at hand I can wrench pretty good and am not too squimish about working on my shovel. No shops for me. What do you mean when you say "don't push clutch rod through the kicker cover"?
I am using 80/90 now but trans still leaks.

Where is Goodyear, AZ? I have family in Tempe.


goodyear is way in west valley. youll have to use a puller on clutch hub. they are special made. a regular puller will push against clutch rod located in main shaft and sometimes it will push into kicker cover, at least it will damage throw out bearing, besides tools already listed, youll need a special one for removing counter shaft sprocket nut, I all ready sold that one. you also need a big fender washer to hold spring pack together. I still got a fly swatter, the right deep well for left handed clutch hub nut and the right puller for your ride. $50 bucks you pay frt. or your family in Tempe can pick up. As far as shop goes, for a one time job you have to have quite a few special tools. know what I mean.

[newultraclassic]

Originally Posted by FXSGARY

Looking for opinions about and options for a replacement ignition electronics for my 81 FXS 80 Lowrider. At the moment the engine, still stock, (15,000 miles) starts up without faults of any kind and performs very well. As far as I know the engine still has all the original parts, has never been apart, and still retains the original timing set up from the factory according to the last owner. If by chance someday I need to replace what is there, what would a suitable replacement be? I usually go by the rule if it ain't broke don't fix it, so I am only looking ahead.
/
/
/
Thanks,
Gary

There are lots and lots of good ignitions on the market for the Shovelheads. I know that Crane is very good. I happen to have a Spyke, Inc. unit on mine. I also have the matching 80,000 volt double coil for single fire application. It's been running with the Spyke for close to three years and no failure. It is easy to time and has an advance curve light on the unit to show when the unit is full advance. Generally you need to run resistor wire and plugs with electronic ignitions but you probably already have those.

Whatever you get, make sure that it is a single fire with a matching high output coil. I have noticed a much easier startup and much more regular idle with the single fire. There is a bit more torque and it will reach the rev limiter now.

A good place to look for such items is the CCI catalog. That's sort of the main book for Shovelhead parts since HD gave up on the older bikes.

Good luck.

[FXSGARY]

newultraclassic...thanks for the tips. What is CCI and where can I get a catalog? I'll try the internet as well. I've been riding my bike all week long. The first time in quite awhile that we haven't had rain 2 or 3 times a week. I use the kicker to start it and it fires right up after I prime it with the key off. So far whatever HD installed in the bike has been working damn good. Idles perfect. No misses of any kind thru the RPM range, nice and steady.



tequacha...I'll pass on what tools you have left. I was talking with a friend at work that has all I'll need. Thanks for the offer.



Gary

[newultraclassic]

Originally Posted by FXSGARY

newultraclassic...thanks for the tips. What is CCI and where can I get a catalog? I'll try the internet as well. I've been riding my bike all week long. The first time in quite awhile that we haven't had rain 2 or 3 times a week. I use the kicker to start it and it fires right up after I prime it with the key off. So far whatever HD installed in the bike has been working damn good. Idles perfect. No misses of any kind thru the RPM range, nice and steady.



tequacha...I'll pass on what tools you have left. I was talking with a friend at work that has all I'll need. Thanks for the offer.



Gary

Hello again. CCI is Custom Chrome. You can find them on the internet. www.customchrome.com They will sell you a catalog for a few bucks. I buy one every year or two. They are the principal supplier for the Harley aftermarket. Their catalog is awe-inspiring. There are a couple of aftermarket Harley shops that I frequent in the Sacramento (CA) area and they sell out of the catalog with 10% off. They list every last ignition and piece-part for your bike, without exception. If you try to get that stuff from your local HD dealer, they will just roll their eyes and offer to sell you a new bike.

As to tools, there is a big wrench you can buy for the countershaft sprocket and also a clutch puller. If you can borrow them so much the better. I bought the two tools right after I got the bike a long time ago and have used them enough to make them worthwhile.

There is also a special nut you can get now for the countershaft sprocket on your bike. It has an 0-ring that seals the splines so they don't leak through the sprocket. I have one on my bike and it really works.

All of that stuff is pictured in the CCI catalog.

Good luck!

[FXSGARY]

newultraclassic... thanks. Of all the parts I did buy for this job I specifically made sure I got the duo nut. I am set as far as parts. I got the washer for the clutch spring pack and I was told that the Chevy harmonic balancer puller will work just fine for the clutch hub. I'm just not sure of the sockets.



Gary

[newultraclassic]

Originally Posted by FXSGARY

newultraclassic... thanks. Of all the parts I did buy for this job I specifically made sure I got the duo nut. I am set as far as parts. I got the washer for the clutch spring pack and I was told that the Chevy harmonic balancer puller will work just fine for the clutch hub. I'm just not sure of the sockets.

Gary

==========================================
Hi, It sounds like you're all set. That washer that limits the side-play for the clutch basket is a great upgrade. I got one ten years ago. It really smooths out the shifting on the four-speed transmission.

By all means, if you need a new counter shaft sprocket, this would be the time to do it. I would avoid the temptation to change to anything larger than a stock 23 tooth model, however. One issue is that the FX's have closer ratio gears than the FL model. (2.447 first for FX vs. 2.660 first for FL's) Therefore, if you gear up too much on the countershaft sprocket you will have a hard time getting started at stop lights, etc.

Another issue will be possible damage to the inner primary. When I got my bike I changed to a 24 tooth sprocket and after a few years I noticed that the chain had milled a notch inside on the top of the inner primary. It didn't go all of the way through but I changed back to a 23 and welded the inner primary and milled it smooth again. Soime folks will go as far as a 25 toother if they have a stroker. This is OK if you make a modification to provide the room.

I like high gearing due to the relatively limited rpm range on the shovelhead so I left the stock 24 tooth engine sprocket and stock 23 countershaft but changed to a 49 tooth rear wheel sprocket. That gives around a 3.3 or so overall which is good for cruising at 70 mph.

I don't know if you are aware or not but the OEM inner primary covers are extremely scarce. The ones that the aftermarket sellers have are often chrome-plated and are made of some sort of zinc compound. They really can't be welded if they are damaged due to the chrome so they are sort of a waste. They aren't cheap, either. A few years back my aftermarket dealer had an OEM one for sale. It was an original rough-cast aluminum inner with a Harley P/N on it. I snapped it up for a spare and haven't seen one in that condition since. I also buy cracked ones at swap meets and repair them.

Good luck on your bike .The Shovelhead is my favorite, even though I have a new bike. It's sort of a hobby with me.

[FXSGARY]

newultraclassic...thank you for taking the time to inform me about these things. I have wrenched on many things, C5's, C141's and C130 aircraft in the Air Force, and a zillion cars as well. It is what relax's me. But the Harley is the next level of achievement for me. You know the mind never stops learning. I haven't had any chances yet to check out swap meets, but I will definately look for an inner primary so I can have a spare. What tequacha said in one of his responses above about going thru through the primary, makes me apprehensive. I hope this job doesn't turn out to be a nightmare.

I WAS wondering about the sprockets. I adjusted my solid lifters I put in last week yesterday and went for a ride and 70 mph put me close to or if not right at 3500 rpm. Man, the engine just purrs. I have a slight "spit" from the carb just as I start my roll into the throttle but other than that I have been thinking about lowering the cruising rpm, maybe to lessen any damage if say I was riding with some of the guys with the newer bikes. Most of them say they hit in to 80's sometimes and I really don't want to be left behind when it comes time to stretch out occasionally.


Gary

[newultraclassic]

Originally Posted by FXSGARY

newultraclassic...thank you for taking the time to inform me about these things. I have wrenched on many things, C5's, C141's and C130 aircraft in the Air Force, and a zillion cars as well. It is what relax's me. But the Harley is the next level of achievement for me. You know the mind never stops learning. I haven't had any chances yet to check out swap meets, but I will definately look for an inner primary so I can have a spare. What tequacha said in one of his responses above about going thru through the primary, makes me apprehensive. I hope this job doesn't turn out to be a nightmare.

I WAS wondering about the sprockets. I adjusted my solid lifters I put in last week yesterday and went for a ride and 70 mph put me close to or if not right at 3500 rpm. Man, the engine just purrs. I have a slight "spit" from the carb just as I start my roll into the throttle but other than that I have been thinking about lowering the cruising rpm, maybe to lessen any damage if say I was riding with some of the guys with the newer bikes. Most of them say they hit in to 80's sometimes and I really don't want to be left behind when it comes time to stretch out occasionally.


Gary

Once you determine what your sprockets are inside the primary (23 or 24 motor, clutch is fixed at 37) then you can consider regearing. 3,500 at 70 mph is too high to be comfortable when riding with other bikes. That sounds to me as it you have a 23 countershaft and a 51 tooth rear wheel. That's stock. Going to a 49 tooth rear will slow you down to around 3,000 at 70-75 mph and that's OK.

Might I ask why you changed to solid lifters? They are fine for certain radical cams which would destroy the hydraulics. OTOH, for a stock or mild upgrade cam, they are really not necessary, even rising IMHO, to a PITA. They were fine on the Knucklehead bikes 'cause you had all iron cylinders and heads and things stayed in adjustment. With your aluminum heads, they tend to go loud when the engine is very hot. Also, if you adjust them too tight, you can easily burn a valve.

Solids are very hard on camshafts as well. The stock Shovelhead hydraulic lifters are really quite good when oil is kept clean and valve guides are nice and tight. Since most of your riding will be done between 2,000 and 3,500 rpm, the value of solid lifters is really questionable for a daily rider. I tied them on my bike a few years back and took them out after about 100 miles. I couldn't stand the noise.

Back in 2001, Honda changed their flagship tourer from hydraulkic tensioners to shim and bucket adjustment when they went to the 1800 model. Result is that the lucky owhers get to pay $300 to $400 every 30,000 miles for an adjustment. This is not good on a touring bike. The prior model, the 1500 had hydraulic tensioners and you never needed to even think about them.

One of the things that I most enjoy about Harleys is the hydraulic lifters. It's one less thing to maintain and worry about with my stock cams. (both of my bikes) The Motor company figured out long ago that one way to keep a big twin-cylinder engine running a long time is to maintain the hydraulic lifters. Of course, these are also standard equipment on automobiles with the exception of the more-exotic cars.

That's my mini-lecture for the day. Sorry

[FXSGARY]

newultraclassic...

Well...when I bought the bike it was getting cold. I had a chance to ride a couple of times then. The first time I took it out i was hearing a really loud banging sound right at the front cylinder. Scared the crap out of me. 15000 original miles on it and the guy I bought it from said he never heard anything like what I described to him. Anyway, I posted some questions on another website I frequent about that noise and ALL said lifter and possibly I have one not working right. So this riding season, riding to work, about 20 minutes, I heard no banging, however, after I rode about an hour and doing the light to light riding in town the banging would come up sitting waiting for the lights to change. Talk about a racket. I looked at the prices of the hydraulic lifters versus the solid inserts that I installed and decided to go that route, at least for me to ride. I'm a big shovelhead freak...and I won't have anything else. I like to tinker and have an original 69 Z28 that I play with all the time with solid lifters.


I have been talking with another gentleman "IRONMIKE" from the other website I frequent and he lead me down the path so to speak to make the decision to go to solids. I do like them and I do like the noise. I may go back to the hydraulics but I don't see that happening right now. Can the hydraulic lifters be rebuilt? Is it worth it?
A bit pricey at the moment for new ones and I wanted to ride the bike.


Gary

[newultraclassic]

Something to think about is that the noise that you are hearing when you ride with solid lifters is slack that builds up when the engine gets up to operating temperature. Because of the greater coefficient of expansion of the aluminum clylinder heads than the cylinders, the clearance on the lifters will tend to open up when up to temp. That said, the excess clearance will inevitably cost you some valve timing.

The noise you heard was likely a collapsed lifter. This can happen when they get dirt inside of them. They probably really only need to be cleaned. The ones in my bike have close to 100,000 miles on them and they are perfectly quiet. You can clean them in solvent by opening the valves inside with a piece of wire and pumping solvent into them.

The other cause for noisy lifters in a Shovelhead is loose valve guides but you probably don't have that issue. When they are loose enougn they prevent the valves from seating correctly in a consistent manner, thus loss of adjustment, even with the hydraulic Units. I experienced this problem once until I rebuilt the cylinder heads with new guides and unleaded seats. Then it was quiet again.

I also run 60 wt. oil all of the time anyway so I'm sure that helps. Mine runs better with heavy oil. Don't ask me why...I know some folks run them on 20-50 and so forth but I don't.

I would give your old lifters a good cleaning, adjust them properly and they should be fine. The adjustment for them is in the manual.

Regards, NUC