What is the etiquette for a traffic stop?

[Cast]

Originally Posted by dhwingert

I've been riding for all of two months and was wondering if an officer could tell me what the etiquette for getting pulled over while riding is. Do I get off the bike? Take off my helmet?

Just curious.

I'll fill in where the others left off...

Use common sense and common courtesy. He's just doing his job, try not to ruin his day. If you're like me and have a CHL, be sure to hand him your driver's license and Concealed Handgun License together. I've done that a few times through the years and I have always seen the tension ease up on the cop's face when he sees that I am one of the good guys. If you get a ticket, you deserved it, take it like a man and learn from it. Thank the cop and tell him to be careful, then get on with your day. If you need to sit there a few minutes to get your cool and calm back, that would be a good idea, then pull away slowly and carefully. Later, you can check on getting defered adjucation to keep the ticket off your record.


____________________

Cast
James 1:19

[nixdad]

Originally Posted by Kingodaroad

I just always refuse the search, let them call the dogs and wait it out. They waste my time I waste theirs and saved somebody else from the hassle. Ride away free and wasn't bothering anyone in the first place.

Sorry Bro. I don't think this topic was based on searches. Would be an interesting thread though.

[AZFXSTB]

I love a good discussion!!!!

Ok ARS 13-3112 does state "The department of public safety shall issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to a person who is qualified under this section. The person shall carry the permit at all times when the person is in actual possession of the concealed weapon and shall present the permit for inspection to any law enforcement officer on request" So yes if requested you must present, the statement about handing the Officer your Permit if you are armed with your license, good practice, I do but you do not have to and it is not a law.
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03112.htm

As to your weapon showing, well that could be a gray area because in AZ you can Open carry without a permit but if you did show it while removing your wallet I guess the state could try and make a case for brandishing but that would be hard to sell also.

All this being said if I am pulled yes I let the officer know I am armed by presenting my permit and normally they ask where my weapon is (I get interesting reactions because I carry in many different locations one being a Kydex neck holster but that's another topic) and I have had one ask to hold it during the stop and I had no problem with it because he was very respectful about it and I responded in kind. What got me started was the statement “cuffed and stuffed” now I do understand it was (I hope) internet hype but I can’t resist the chance to open a discussion on it to educate those that may want the knowledge, myself included. The second amendment is more important than most acknowledge and I see that it was acknowledged by the person who made the statement so all is good in my book. Not sure where the search issue came about other than the need to be an arse, but ha to each his own. Now want to really make this interesting if you are performing your LOE duties in support of a federal agency say…ummmm DHS now you are under a whole new set of rules!!!

As far as the “Good guy” card I agree and most LEO’s do too it’s like having backup everywhere!!!


“An armed society is a polite society” Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life – Robert A Heinlein

Ride Safe

[R-RatedCustoms]

Originally Posted by Dansville Rob

I have a question for the LEO's out there.

When you are dealing with a citizen, and you find out they have a CPL, does that make you more or less nervous / respectful of them?

To my way of thinking, a CPL is basically a "good citizenship" card. In order to have one I was finger printed, went through an FBI background check, and proved I do not have a history of violence or certain other crimes. Having that card proves that I have never been caught illegally using a weapon or carrying under the influence. It also demonstrates that I'm the kind of person that plays by the rules, and that I went to the trouble and expense to follow the law even when it is inconvenient and overly bureaucratic.

All things equal, yes. Here is the but. I had the sorry experience of having to stop two Camaros out drag racing in rush hour on a country road that is heavily traveled. Apparently, they were trying to see whose balls were bigger.

One fellow was quick to exit his vehicle and was stomping and huffing about. My backup rolled in behind him and as they walked up they noticed his handgun was in the door pocket sticking up and down as if it was just placed there when the car stopped,

Did I have more respect for him for passing what it took to get his permit? No, he was hot headed and a straight up jerk with the attitude of "How dare you write me for wreckless driving!"

I even had one guy with a permit arrive drunk at his ex's house and instead of his wallet in his back pocket, he had his 9mm. I guess he drove two counties and plum forgot about it being there. Did I respect him? No, I could tell he would have killed her had I not been called to do a report about him calling her and harassing her. Luckily, I was parked down out in the street and he missed the car when he pulled in the driveway.

Finally, I had one guy with a permit chase two teens on the roads for about 15 miles because the teens were fishing in a pond on some property that he owned but did not farm or live on.

So, the point is from a being ex-law enforcement - it depends on the situation. If a person is out acting like an a55, then they are just and a55 with a permit. If you are just out making a mistake like speeding, then no biggie. I am glad you want to protect yourself, just be careful.

[R-RatedCustoms]

Originally Posted by Kingodaroad

I just always refuse the search, let them call the dogs and wait it out. They waste my time I waste theirs and saved somebody else from the hassle. Ride away free and wasn't bothering anyone in the first place.

Why would they want to search? What is their probable cause for the search? I used to work with some d1cks that would not give back the person's ID etc until they asked the famous line, "Is there anything in the car that I need to know about like guns, drugs, hand grenades, or dead bodies?"

Here is the problem, once the officer writes the citation or whatever they want to do, then they are finished and have to cut you loose unless the can articulate why they needed to detain you further. By my co-worker holding the ID and not returning it - they are preventing the stopped person from freely leaving. Therefore, they have in effect "arrested" the person.

The correct way is to return the documents after explaining the citation or whatever. Then let the person know directly that they are free to go. Then ask the question. Joe Public does not have to answer and can drive away of they want. I was amazed how some folks would still engage in the conversation.

Just a bit of thought.

[Bob Mac]

Right On !

[Bob Mac]

Hey Wingert,
This usually works well when I get stopped....when the officer ask's you ..."Do you know why I pulled you over?" .... you simply reply with this question....."uh..lets seee...because you thought that i had a dozen of donuts in my saddlebags,officer ?"

[zap89]

Originally Posted by Lefty

To every real LEO visiting this board I apologize for post #24. Sometimes I get carried away. It's just that I happen to live in a part of the world where the local cops are untrained obese dimwits that view themselves as gods. I'm highly respectful of and appreciative of our MO state troopers, city of STL cops, ST Louis County cops and many others, but the bumpkin brigade sucks and it has a huge membership. Probably a matter of you get what you pay for.

Lefty

Why apologize ? 90% are scared little boys that got beat up in school. No matter how cooperative you are power corrupts. This is not Russia and the last time I checked it was still the good old US 0f A !!!!!, we DO NOT have to act like scared children and not make daddy angry...and because we choose not to kiss ass on a cop it should not be a reason for them to give us a ticket or make some "causing public disturbance" charge to put us in jail.

And before ya'll start crying, I wear a flat top, don't drink, smoke or do drugs (so what if I keep my glasses on, no law against wearing them ohh but we don't want to anger bossman).

Well too much said still....... This is not Russia and the last time I checked it was still the good old US 0f A !!!!! When cops are held accountable for their actions then citzens(law abiding ones) will trust and back them.

[Dansville Rob]

Originally Posted by R-RatedCustoms

All things equal, yes. Here is the but. ....

So, the point is from a being ex-law enforcement - it depends on the situation. If a person is out acting like an a55, then they are just and a55 with a permit. If you are just out making a mistake like speeding, then no biggie. I am glad you want to protect yourself, just be careful.

I totally agree. Actions speak louder than words. My automatic reaction is to be polite and respectful, towards cops or anyone else for that matter. But act like a jerk and I'll consider you a jerk.

I have a general attitude of respect toward authority - just the way I was raised I guess. And I give people with shared interests - bikes, guns, whatever the benefit of the doubt that I'll like them. But we've all met people that make us dislike them, despite our best efforts to get along.

[Habanero Kid]

Originally Posted by dhwingert

In my state it is an infraction to not inform an officer immediately if you are carrying. They can tell when they run your license plate that the vehicle is registered to someone with a cpl regardless so I tell them I have a cpl even if I'm not carrying because it will be the first question otherwise.

I don't say anything.... too many jumpy cops around here that get jittery when they hear that I'm carrying. They know in advance anyway. One time I was pulled, he was on the PA telling me to stay put w/ hands on grips. When he came over the first thing he said was "Where's you pistol?" I told him and after he told me what I did wrong we spent 15 min in his car comparing pistols cuz he had no experience w/ a 1911.

The first time, the officer about freaked when I told him I was carrying. He called for backup and had his hand on the grip about 5ft back untill BU arrived. I have friends that are cops and the law is to speak up, but they ALL told me not to worry about it because they already know when they run your plate.

[dhwingert]

Originally Posted by Habanero Kid

I don't say anything.... too many jumpy cops around here that get jittery when they hear that I'm carrying. They know in advance anyway. One time I was pulled, he was on the PA telling me to stay put w/ hands on grips. When he came over the first thing he said was "Where's you pistol?" I told him and after he told me what I did wrong we spent 15 min in his car comparing pistols cuz he had no experience w/ a 1911.

The first time, the officer about freaked when I told him I was carrying. He called for backup and had his hand on the grip about 5ft back untill BU arrived. I have friends that are cops and the law is to speak up, but they ALL told me not to worry about it because they already know when they run your plate.

What the heck are you guys doing out there?

The few encounters I've had with cops at most the tone of voice might possibly be a tiny bit tense as we cover that I have a cpl and whether I am currently carrying. As soon as they get truthful answers it relaxes down to boringly ordinary routine.

When the law first changed six years ago there were stories of some cops being uptight during traffic stops. But the lack of and incidents and familiarity solved that.

[Habanero Kid]

Originally Posted by dhwingert

What the heck are you guys doing out there?

The few encounters I've had with cops at most the tone of voice might possibly be a tiny bit tense as we cover that I have a cpl and whether I am currently carrying. As soon as they get truthful answers it relaxes down to boringly ordinary routine.

When the law first changed six years ago there were stories of some cops being uptight during traffic stops. But the lack of and incidents and familiarity solved that.

I dunno... I think this might have been the first guy's stop of a person carrying legally.

I don't have any bad feelings about it, they did what they thought was right and I was only detained a few extra minutes. Besides, we had good convo about carrying. And yes, I was speeding to beat the band both times. No tickets tho...

[trooper113]

Originally Posted by zap89

Why apologize ? 90% are scared little boys that got beat up in school.

Most officers I ever ran across were pretty squared away, professional folks. That's an interesting and very wide paintbrush you're painting with for some reason. I wonder if you can post any valid research stats to back up your claim. Before you waste your time trying to find it, you can't.

Most agencies require at least a reasonable minimum of psych testing before an officer is hired. Many agencies require much more in depth psych testing. Do a few bad apples get through? Sure....just like in all professions and jobs...docs, teachers, lawyers, truck drivers, painters, plumbers and whatever it is you do.

[Dansville Rob]

Originally Posted by zap89

Why apologize ? 90% are scared little boys that got beat up in school.

I always find it ironic that a biker would be so quick to stereotype such a large group of people.

[zap89]

Originally Posted by Dansville Rob

I always find it ironic that a biker would be so quick to stereotype such a large group of people.

"Although stereotypes are rarely entirely accurate, statistical studies have shown that in some cases stereotypes do represent measurable facts"

Get stopped enough and actually go to jail because you did not kiss his ass and he dreamed up the "causing a disturbance" charge and you will see what I mean. Not saying yes sir everytime is again not a reason to put you in jail.


"Most agencies require at least a reasonable minimum of psych testing before an officer is hired. Many agencies require much more in depth psych testing. Do a few bad apples get through? Sure....just like in all professions and jobs...docs, teachers, lawyers, truck drivers, painters, plumbers and whatever it is you do."

Yes true....but power corrupts and with no checks and balances they do as they wish. I'm sure plenty of folks have horror stories, county and city jails are the worst.
But these people are not supposed to be like that, they are given guns because they are supposed to be above that.