What is the etiquette for a traffic stop? - Page 2 : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

nixdad · 08-14-2007, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdb29

I haven't seen a similar training bulletin in over twenty years, but you may run into a dinosoar like myself who remembers it- so keep your fingers spread, and don't be moving the bars/front end as I walk up on you.
Also there was another one about dagger blades welded inside gas tank caps. Don't fiddle with them while i'm within arms reach of you..

Hey SDB29,
Great dino info. We can all learn from each other. The shotgun grip is something I'll keep an eye out for.
Thanks

LarryM · 08-14-2007, 08:32 AM

It's been awhile since I was stopped. The last time was for speeding in PA on the way to the York factory. The trooper let me get off the bike to get the registration and insurance card out of the tour pack but the wife had to stay on the bike. After a patdown and turning my pockets out he let me go with a verbal warning. I think my co-operation helped.

nixdad · 08-14-2007, 08:59 AM

Your cooperation definately helped. Had you been a dick, he would probably have cited you. Sounds like he was more on a drug interdiction than anything else.

Honesty and cooperation goes a long way.

PR3VS56 · 08-14-2007, 09:21 AM

I was stopped in Laughlin last year -- the officer wouldn't leave his cruiser until I put the kickstand UP. I couldn't figure it out, he kept telling me to put the kickstand UP & my mind just heard "kickstand" & I was putting it down. Bottom line, he figured I wouldn't run if it meant dropping the scoot. The whole time pulled over I was balancing the bike.

R-RatedCustoms · 08-14-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdb29

The only thing I can add is back in the day when i started on the job (1981)there was a training bulletin that indicated some outlaw bikers were concealing a device inside the left grip that consisted of a 12 guage shotgun shell and a spring loaded firing pin of some kind. Releasing a lever of some kind on the left grip area would cause this shotgun shell to discharge. The bulletin at the time warned officers to watch out for bikers who were pointing the end of the left grip towards them, because the potential for injury existed.
Keeping your hands on the grips is a good idea, but you might want to consider resting your palms on the grips and keeping your fingers spread and slightly raised and away from any controls on the bars, especially the left one. I haven't seen a similar training bulletin in over twenty years, but you may run into a dinosoar like myself who remembers it- so keep your fingers spread, and don't be moving the bars/front end as I walk up on you.
Also there was another one about dagger blades welded inside gas tank caps. Don't fiddle with them while i'm within arms reach of you..

That device was still in use in the late 90's as well.

Texan · 08-14-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nixdad

Let me add one more thing. If you are carrying a concealed weapon, tell the officer up front. It will negate any surprises and you probably won't find yourself prone out on the ground, and then cuffed and stuffed in the back of a patrol car. Just let the officer know that you are carrying a concealed weapon and tell the officer where it is located on your person. It's obvious to tell you that while you're advising the officer, keep your hands plainly visible. Just remember, the least amount of surprises, the better.

Agree 100% on this one. Texas CHL law requires you to advise the LEO that you are carrying RIGHT UP FRONT. I advise the officer that I have a CHL whether I'm carrying or not because when the officer runs your license for wants/warrants the fact that you have a CHL pops up on the screen. I don't want the LEO having to come back to me with more questions. The smoooooother the better.

o~\o

steveusmc · 08-14-2007, 06:39 PM

Florida doesn't require that a driver inform a LEO about a concealed weapon. However, I would immediately inform any officer that pulls me over that I have a permit and whether or not I am carrying. In Florida, as soon as he runs a license check, the Concealed Weapons Permit information pops up also.

If I ever get stopped for a traffic violation (never have so far)...maybe because I don't violate as a habit, or at a "checkpoint", does a LEO have the authority to have me remove my weapon and "safe" it or what? Since I am not required by law to tell him whether I am carrying or not, can he treat me like a "criminal" as soon as he knows I have a permit?

I guess my question to any LEO in here is...What is the normal routine when someone is stopped and they have a permit and are carrying?

steveusmc · 08-14-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryM

It's been awhile since I was stopped. The last time was for speeding in PA on the way to the York factory. The trooper let me get off the bike to get the registration and insurance card out of the tour pack but the wife had to stay on the bike. After a patdown and turning my pockets out he let me go with a verbal warning. I think my co-operation helped.

So.....it's okay for an officer to search you during a "speeding" stop in Pa? Did he have any probable cause to "turn out your pockets"? Just curious but it sounds like horsesh*t to me. Did he not have the ability to run a check to see if you whad any wnats or warrants? Did the conversation lead him to believe you may be up to no good? Did you "act" like you were hiding something? If I am stopped and a police officer ever ask me if he can look through my stuff I will tell him unless he has probable cause...I will PASS on the search.

For a LEO...does a "traffic stop" give an officer unlimited range of searching a citizen if that person is cooperative, not abusive, not impaired, and not suspicious? Can you search just for the sake of searching?

Lefty · 08-14-2007, 08:03 PM

What a bunch of bull$hit. If I am caught breaking a law I expect to be cited. If I'm abiding by the law I expect to be left alone. Donut eaters have no right to stop law abiding citizens to go "fishing" then expect them to act in a particular manner (kick stand up/down - hands on bars/off bars - whatever). I grow weary of hearing/reading how one should act when stopped for no reason and about how one acts determining whether or not one gets cited. Break the law - get cited. Minding your own business - donut eaters should do the same. How about a little discussion of donut eater etiquette? Sure, if I'm requested to stop I will but I won't act submissive or brown nose the coksucker.

Lefty

Retrax · 08-14-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty

Sure, if I'm requested to stop I will but I won't act submissive or brown nose the coksucker.
Lefty

I never looked at a traffic stop as a "request" for the driver to pull over. Good luck with that. Not sure where the course of this thread turned cops into "coksukers" either, but good luck with that too...

Texan · 08-14-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveusmc

...Florida doesn't require that a driver inform a LEO about a concealed weapon....

?? Interesting. Before I took my ride in July down into the South East I wrote all DPS/Attorney General offices in the some 15 states we were going to be riding in including Florida inquiring about their laws and such for CHL. I could have sworn that the Florida AG's office told me you have to advise any LEO that you are carrying. I'm going to have to see if I kept those letters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveusmc

...If I ever get stopped for a traffic violation (never have so far)...maybe because I don't violate as a habit, or at a "checkpoint", does a LEO have the authority to have me remove my weapon and "safe" it or what? Since I am not required by law to tell him whether I am carrying or not, can he treat me like a "criminal" as soon as he knows I have a permit?

One of the fellows riding with us this year had his gun confiscated in Georgia last year even though they recognize our Texas CHL. After some 4 hours they gave him back his gun and he was on his way. ????

o~\o

AirGlider · 08-15-2007, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdb29

The only thing I can add is back in the day when i started on the job (1981)there was a training bulletin that indicated some outlaw bikers were concealing a device inside the left grip that consisted of a 12 guage shotgun shell and a spring loaded firing pin of some kind. Releasing a lever of some kind on the left grip area would cause this shotgun shell to discharge. The bulletin at the time warned officers to watch out for bikers who were pointing the end of the left grip towards them, because the potential for injury existed.
Keeping your hands on the grips is a good idea, but you might want to consider resting your palms on the grips and keeping your fingers spread and slightly raised and away from any controls on the bars, especially the left one. I haven't seen a similar training bulletin in over twenty years, but you may run into a dinosoar like myself who remembers it- so keep your fingers spread, and don't be moving the bars/front end as I walk up on you.
Also there was another one about dagger blades welded inside gas tank caps. Don't fiddle with them while i'm within arms reach of you..

As I remember from the early 70's, it was a scenario from the "Shoot, don't shoot" training film.

Lefty · 08-15-2007, 08:20 AM

To every real LEO visiting this board I apologize for post #24. Sometimes I get carried away. It's just that I happen to live in a part of the world where the local cops are untrained obese dimwits that view themselves as gods. I'm highly respectful of and appreciative of our MO state troopers, city of STL cops, ST Louis County cops and many others, but the bumpkin brigade sucks and it has a huge membership. Probably a matter of you get what you pay for.

Lefty

Texan · 08-15-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveusmc

....Florida doesn't require that a driver inform a LEO about a concealed weapon. However, I would immediately inform any officer that pulls me over that I have a permit and whether or not I am carrying. In Florida, as soon as he runs a license check, the Concealed Weapons Permit information pops up also....

Hey Steve, ya might check your laws again. I received a letter from a Colonel Chris A. Knight, Director of Florida Highway Patrol, stating in part that "if stopped/approached by a Florida Law Enforcement Officer it was Florida law that to present the officer with my drivers license/identification and CHL license at the same time. AND was to advise the officer if I was carrying a weapon or not". ??????

And the way he wrote the letter (or who every wrote it) did not differentiate between state residents and out of state.

o~\o

LarryM · 08-15-2007, 09:31 AM

It is my understanding that cops don't need 'probable cause' to conduct a patdown for weapons for their own safety. Only a 'reasonable suspicion' is needed. See the US Supreme Court decision regarding Terry vs. Ohio.

I had been rightly stopped for speeding. I was doing wrong. I was not free to leave. I admitted being a doofus that day. I think speeding is a motor vehicle 'crime' in PA. The trooper patted me down for weapons and felt things in my pockets. He asked me to take them out which I did - wallet, hankerchief, keys, change and cell phone. He was satisified and let me go.

The side of the highway is not the place to argue Constitutional rights with a police officer.