Active Duty LEO Choirboys MC Club Members Not Allowed at Gang Meetings

[zoo]

I was talking to a gang officer recently and he told me they don’t allow law enforcement officers who are members of the Choirboys MC Club to attend their gang task force meetings. The two reasons he gave were:

1. CB members in the past were suspected to have given confidential information from meetings to 1%’er clubs.

2. The Choirboys went to the HA to get permission to wear the bottom rocker and therefore are in some way in choots with the Angles.

In my experience, I tend to believe that if any LEO is going to provide intelligence to any criminal organization it’s usually going to be the officer you don’t even suspect because he is getting some kind of payoff for the information. I haven’t seen anything about the Choirboys that warrants this kind of suspicion. Secondly, I can’t see a bunch of cops/retired cops going to a one percenter club for permission for ANYTHING, even if we are talking HA. Sounds like bullsh!t to me.

What do you think, particularly about the rocker claim? I would honestly like to hear your opinions. Are these gang officers just being bigots? I'm wondering if what they're doing isn't down right illegal.

(By the way, mods. If this thread is in violation of any of your rules please feel free to delete).

[zoo]

I would really appreciate an LEMC giving me their position on this.

[gman116]

It is customary for new motorcycle clubs of any type to get permission from the dominate 1% club in that area to wear the bottom rocker that signifies "territory." This being said, the "custom" of this was no doubt originated by 1% er's. I don't know personally of any self respecting law enforcement officer that would ask permission of a 1% er for anything, however, I do know of some Law Enforcement MC's that have done so. As far as it being illegal for the task force officers to prohibit Choir Boys officers from meetings, I guess there could be a civil discrimination in that somewhere, but I doubt there is any legal precedent that relates to that. Having been in law enforcement for 15 years and also riding bikes, I have seen a lot of ignorance on the part of gang investigators when it comes to LEMC's. This comes from mainly gang investigators who have no experience with the motorcycle community. They seem to quickly group their fellow officers as emulating outlaw clubs just because they might wear a vest and patch. My experience has found that most LEMC's hold a high moral standard and try to show a positive side of the biker community. The exception to this is a few clubs that started out as LEMC's, but slowly evolved into allowing non LE members, many of whom who had questionable backgrounds (criminal records, drug use, etc...). This can obviously tarnish the image of any LEMC, just as a "bad cop" can tarnish the image of any police department. Sorry to ramble on, but I hope my perspective helped answer your question. I am not surprised to hear the Choir Boys are getting a raw deal, but I would guess it is coming out of the ignorance of their co-workers. I'm sorry to hear that happened.

[DJW]

Zoo, for what it's worth, I can personally back up that gman is who says he is.

[route66paul]

There are a lot of bike riders that have had scrapes with the law, and some might drink too much, or even smoke a fatty now and again. But, for the most part, most of the riders today are sober(when riding) and have grown out of their bad habits. How questionable are we if we haven't had as much as a ticket in the last 10 years? 20 years?

If LEOs only want to ride with other LEOs, but if they want to act like Joe Public, i don't think you should paint them with the bad brush. If many more LEOs had freinds outside the department, it might change some of the BA cops out there.

[gman116]

Paul-My reference to "questionable backgrounds" was not aimed towards people who have had minor brushes with the law or traffic tickets. I was referring more to extensive criminal history such as numerous misdemeanor/felony convictions. Hope this clarifies my opinion for you. --Greg

[Odd Job]

I've been in the Choir Boys for about 5-years now, a former Vice President of Calif Region 1 and currently a State of California Sergeant at Arms.

The problem is that the OMG experts don't really know who we are, what we represent and things we do for Fallen Officers Families or Officers critically injured in the line of duty. I wish those OMG investigators, who speak ill of us, would infiltrate into our club and see who and what we actually are, that would change their minds forever! These rumors that float around about us is just that...rumors. These rumors have been around a long time and am sure that they will never stop.

A lot of people (LEO's included) do not know that we have Chiefs of Police as members, Assistant Chief's, numerous Commanders, Captains, etc. I am a Lieutenant with a medium sized police department in Los Angeles County. I would not be nor would my Chief of Police allow me to have membership in the Choir Boys M.C. if these rumors were true. I'm sure the Chiefs and Command staff personnel would not be in the club either if it were true.

The Choir Boys never have asked anyone for permission to have a bottom rocker as we are a bonified Law Enforcement organization. Back when the club first started we did have a few knuckleheads in the club and they were pretty hardcore into partying and those members have since left. No one has ever leaked info to any OMG's, in fact we have several OMG investigators in our club and yes, sometimes they are not let into some of these training seminars, which is too bad and a shame as these guys are good investigators and have a lot to offer. This club has evolved into a professional organization It's very difficult to shake a reputation that is bestowed upon a person or organization.

As in any organization you will have some bad apples that shouldn't be in the profession that they are in (i.e. doctors, attorneys, teachers, priests, firemen, etc.) and strike a black mark against the good. Just seems cops get more press! I only hope that everyone see's both sides of the story and believes the facts. We are not perfect but we are working very hard to change these misconceptions about us by acts that we do.

One of our detectives works with a well known OMG task force and I asked him one day what they think about the Choir Boys. His reply was that we are not on anyones radar and basically gave us a clean bill of health.

By the way besides my duty as being the day watch Watch Commander of my agency, I am also one of the Lieutenants assigned as the Internal Affiars Investigator for my department and cannot acquiesce to misconduct on or off-duty.

Not trying to change anyones thinking but this is just a quick explanation to the above threads. Hope I don't flamed too bad!!!

p.s. we are a 100% Harley Davidson, Law enforcement personnel only club. We do not let civilians in and try to have quality control when letting new members in. We also DO NOT prospect members.

Also, if anyone has any questions about our club I'll be more than happy to answer them and dispell any rumors that you might have heard.

[Milehog]

Odd Job, welcome to the forum.Thank's for taking the time to educate us.
I have heard rumors of LEO clubs asking permission to wear a rocker. any idea if this has happened?

[Odd Job]

As rumors would circulate, it happened with two clubs.....not 100%, but have reliable info from an OMG investigator that it happened, so I'm not going to name them, but I have good suspicion who they were. It was two LEMC clubs within LA County.

Won't deny or defend them, but there are a few LEO clubs out there that are really walking the thin blue line...I've seen it with my own eyes and do not approve of it. These clubs prospect members, live really close to the 1%er lifestyle (without comitting crimes of course) and are hard hardcore BIKERS!

The Choir Boys do not associate with any of these clubs even though we might professionally know some of these members. Sometimes they do show up to our events but we open our events to the public and other LEMC's so they will show up. 1%'er clubs are not invited however we are not invited to theirs either, so there's that "understanding". We try and stay away from any club that will tarnish our reputation what we have so tirelessy worked for!

Sorry....Kind of lengthy...but hope that answers your question?

[Milehog]

Yes, thank's again.

[zoo]

Thank you very much for your contribution, oddjob. (And thank you to everybody else for that matter).

Also, gman, I know what you mean about ignorant OMG investigators. Having been around the block a few times myself and having interacted at various levels with one percenters, white supremists, survivalists, white, hispanic, black, mixed, OC/OG's, and even the good old mob, I'm starting to find a few of these "gang experts" and their seminars are an embarrassment to the LEO community. Fortunately, not too many civilians have the opportunity to witness these events.

And don't get me wrong, I appreciate the threat some of these outfits and/or their individual members sometimes present to the community. But I'm starting to get the feeling that a few of our OMG investigators present a threat themselves if not in any other way but to insult our intelligence.

As it relates to unlawful behavior on the part of OMG investigators; I was not necessarily refering to criminal behavior but civil as well. Something tells me they are setting us up for some righteous law suits from fellow officers as well as from the very people they are monitoring. So far they strike me as a big waste of money particularly when they take funding away from good old fashion cops doing regular street work.

Zoo

[Bobyjimmie]

I’ve been in the Choir Boys for nearly 3 years now and am currently a California State Region Vice President. I am happy to see that Odd Job hopped on here and so eloquently answered the questions asked above and I can second everything he said from my own personal experience with the club.

Bobbyjimmie

[george248]

great posts there Odd Job welcome to the forum

[camfireftrspecial]

A different spin on this question. I belong to the Red Knights MC which is firefighter based riding anything on two wheels, it is a nationally recognized club. We have been trying to get our bottom rocker authorized for 3 years. This means attending other clubs meetings in an attempt to allow them to get to know us. A loose way at best to get this done due to there are only 7 of us as we just started our chapter, so not enough of us to get recognized. Anyone know of how this process really works in an attempt to streamline getting the bottom rocker?

[zoo]

I should also point out that the Vietnam Veterans and Legacy mc clubs were also classified by the OMG/OC officers as being gangs along with the more commonly recognized one percenter clubs such as HA, Mongols, Outlaws, etc., as well as Sureno, Norteno, Crips, Bloods, and so on.

Is there anyone from other LEMC clubs like the Blue Knights or such who can comment on whether or not they obtained permission from a dominant once percenter club in their area to wear the bottom rocker?

Camfireftrspecial, am I correct in understanding that you and the six or seven other firemen in your club are actually having to be hang arounds with one percenter's in order to get your bottom rocker?

Again, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone. I'm trying to understand the social dynamics of these organizations. The LEO community tends to categorize folks into neat little groups. We need to understand that it is much more complicated than that. By overemphasizing criminality in these organizations, I wonder if we're doing a disservice to the community and actually exacerbating the situation; throwing fuel on the fire, so to speak.

Zoo