Brushing up on those Spring riding skills

[DBotkin]

I was thinking things were going pretty well today, wife and I were out for a nice little ride on roads we know well. We've got one of those dumbass traffic signals on a clear, straight stretch of highway, and I reacted a little slowly. Took a second too long to decide whether to stop or try for the yellow. Left a nice, long, snakey black skid mark from the rear tire. We didn't go down, but the rear end felt awfully slippery and started trying to catch up with the front end as that burned rubber smell drifted forward! To her credit, Wifey was a trooper and didn't even flinch. Well, not that I knew of anyway. I was able to concentrate on the panicked voice screaming in my head, not one from the headset!

A little too late, about the time that rear locked up, I realized I'd been concentrating so much on braking that I had completely forgotten to downshift. By then I didn't want to risk letting off the front brake, so I just clutched - which probably didn't help the situation any, but at least the engine didn't stall and complicate things even more.

In hindsight, it wouldn't have been nearly as spectacular if I'd used a LOT more front brake and thought to downshift immediately. I normally don't use a lot of rear brake, but I think I reacted as if I were in the truck... trouble ahead = right foot mashing down on the brake pedal.

In a 4-wheeled vehicle, I'll sometimes intentionally find a safe place to get into a really nasty skid (empty, wet parking lot or a gravel road) just to keep my reactions, braking and counter-steering up to snuff. I haven't ever done it on a bike, because it's not just a matter of having a safe place. In the truck, you can do it so that there's basically no penalty for screwing it up - no chance of wrecking it. On the bike, you have no safety margin. ANY skid is a potential bike- and life-wrecker. Sure, I practice the panic stop occasionally, but not as often as I should (obviously) and never from 60+ MPH.

Maybe I should change that.

[Shoe]

It sounds like you did the right thing (which was to leave the rear brake locked up). Once its locked, you dont want to release it due to the increased chances of high-siding. The only thing I think I would have done (keep in mind, hindsight is always 20/20) is I would not have downshifted. In your situation, I would have just pulled in the clutch and kept on the front brake while keeping the rear one locked. Downshifting on a bike whose rear tire is skidding wont do anything beneficial for you.

Glad you kept it upright and didn't panic. Thats where most trouble begins is when people panic.

Take care,
Dave

[DAKSY]

<> The only thing I think I would have done (keep in mind, hindsight is always 20/20) is I would not have downshifted. In your situation, I would have just pulled in the clutch and kept on the front brake while keeping the rear one locked. Downshifting on a bike whose rear tire is skidding wont do anything beneficial for you.<>

Maybe not in his particular situation, but it's STILL a good habit to get into. You may need to accelerate quickly to avoid something else & if you're not geared low enough, the bike's gonna die.
When I took the Experienced Rider Course (ERC) from the MSF, they instructed us to use all four appendages on the controls...
Clutch, downhift, handbrake & footbrake ALL at the same time...
Granted, at 60 you may not get all the way down to the proper gear, but you'll get closer to where you hafta be....

[Shoe]

Originally Posted by DAKSY

Maybe not in his particular situation, but it's STILL a good habit to get into. You may need to accelerate quickly to avoid something else & if you're not geared low enough, the bike's gonna die.
When I took the Experienced Rider Course (ERC) from the MSF, they instructed us to use all four appendages on the controls...
Clutch, downhift, handbrake & footbrake ALL at the same time...
Granted, at 60 you may not get all the way down to the proper gear, but you'll get closer to where you hafta be....

I have also taken the ERC, and I agree with you. I thought he was implying using engine braking to stop, not downshifting to get to a lower gear. Maybe I misread or misinterpreted his post.....

[DBotkin]

Just as bad as not being able to accelerate, consider this. When you're still in 5th gear and approaching the stop, engine's starting to buck and cough, it just makes it that much tougher to keep it straight & upright. By that time your pucker factor is about at its max; in my case the bike was starting to get sideways, and we were almost in the intersection. NOT the time to try to manage one more distracting factor. And what happens when you're still rolling and the engine -- still in 5th -- dies? It's NOT going to help your stability issues any.

Like I said, wish I'd remembered early to downshift, mostly for engine braking but not just that.

I didn't come up off the rear brake completely, but I did modulate the pressure just a bit. I could feel the ass end of the bike come sharply back in line when I did. I can see where if you're in a serious skid, it could high-side you pretty quickly. In my case, the rear tire was just starting to come around on the right when I let the rear brake slip just a bit. It worked, but definitely drove the point home about not letting off any more than that.

[Shoe]

Originally Posted by DBotkin

Just as bad as not being able to accelerate, consider this. When you're still in 5th gear and approaching the stop, engine's starting to buck and cough, it just makes it that much tougher to keep it straight & upright. By that time your pucker factor is about at its max; in my case the bike was starting to get sideways, and we were almost in the intersection. NOT the time to try to manage one more distracting factor. And what happens when you're still rolling and the engine -- still in 5th -- dies? It's NOT going to help your stability issues any.

Like I said, wish I'd remembered early to downshift, mostly for engine braking but not just that.

I didn't come up off the rear brake completely, but I did modulate the pressure just a bit. I could feel the ass end of the bike come sharply back in line when I did. I can see where if you're in a serious skid, it could high-side you pretty quickly. In my case, the rear tire was just starting to come around on the right when I let the rear brake slip just a bit. It worked, but definitely drove the point home about not letting off any more than that.

Pulling in the clutch would keep the motor from dying. That was what I was trying to say in the first post. I think everyone is misunderstanding what I am saying, so I am going to stop posting on this thread. Its just making things more convoluted.

I am glad that you made it out alright and I will leave it at that.

Take care,
Dave

[Nazzdak]

My .02

Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but the main thing to focus on here is that there is ALWAYS something to be learned from a potential motorcycle accident.

1. In an emergency stop, the rear brake is completely USELESS! Thus the first thoughts that should be coming out of your mind, the next time you need to get as much speed out of the motorcycle, in the shortest time possible, is

FRONT BRAKE!
FRONT BRAKE!
FRONT BRAKE!

2. You were braking hard because you wanted to bring the motorcycle to a complete STOP. Under these circumstances, you should ALWAYS cover the clutch, and downshift the motorcycle into first gear. ALWAYS! Click here for a demonstration>>>www.youtube.com/conedown

3. You will never, EVER, rise to the occasion. Instead, you tend to SINK down to whatever level of motorcycle training that you've had. Thus, I strongly suggest practicing your emergency stops, asap.

Start by going out to your garage, and squeezing the front brake with all four fingers, while counting out loud "one, one thousand". do not "jerk" or "grab" the front brake. Squeeze it, while counting out loud "one, one thousand". If you have squeezed the front lever to a complete close, before you have counted "one, one thousand" out loud, you are squeezing too much of the front brake, too soon.

Next, find an empty parking lot where you can get the transmission into 2nd gear, and your wheel speed up to no more than 20mph, and practice this technique using your FRONT BRAKE ONLY! You should be SIMULTANEOUSLY shifting down into 1st gear as you are braking...just like you hear in the video.

Once you get comfortable doing this, repeat the entire process, only this time, place your right foot on the rear brake when you begin to brake, but do not apply ANY pressure whatsoever. The momentum of the motorcycle pitching forward is all the pressure you will EVER need.

Once you become comfortable doing this at 20 mph, bump your speed up to 25 mph and start all over.

By this time, the complete physical act of

1. Squeezing the front brake with all four fingers, while counting out loud "one, one thousand"
2. Covering the clutch and simultaneously shifting the transmission down into first gear
3. Placing your right foot on the rear brake, but not applying any pressure....

Should ALL be second nature. If it is not, keep practicing the exercise at 20mph until it is.

At 40mph, your bike is capable of coming to a complete stop in less than 72 feet. The average for a professional rider is 68 feet. Unfortunately, this requires approximately 90% use of the FRONT BRAKE. Out of the corner of my eye, I have seen the lever on my front brake squeezed all the way back to the throttle handle at this wheel speed and stopping distance. Thus, make no mistake, you MUST practice this exercise if you are to ever master it.

Most people never learn to master the front brake, because they fear that in doing so, they will lock up the front wheel. Yet, you will be far better off, as a rider, learning what to do AFTER the front wheel locks up, on the practice site, then you will having never practiced your emergency stops at all.

Should the front wheel ever lock up while you are practicing, the proper technique is to release the front lever immediately and RE-APPLY BOTH BRAKES right away.

Signs of an impending , or outright front wheel lock up are as follows.

1. A loud screech coming from the lower front end of the motorcycle

2. A smooth sliding feeling, coming from the front end of the motor, as it has now lost all traction with the road. To me, it feels like the front end of the motorcycle is on ice, instead of asphalt or concrete.

3. A change in the horizon, as the motor is now on what is likely it's left side, and sliding, instead of upright

4. A meaningful "shift" in the handle bars.

Don't ask me how I know these things. All I can say is that If you ride long enough, you'll see it all.

Again, Should the front wheel ever lock up while you are practicing, the proper technique is to release the front lever immediately and RE-APPLY BOTH BRAKES right away.

Good luck!
David

[DBotkin]

Originally Posted by Shoe

Pulling in the clutch would keep the motor from dying. That was what I was trying to say in the first post.

I agree. It's the only time I can think of in the past several years that I have NOT pulled int he clutch, even during a panic stop - which thankfully are quite rare for me. I don't think I made a single panic stop all last year. It's easy to do it when you're practicing in a parking lot, of course, but you don't often hit 60 or so in a parking lot.

Originally Posted by Nazzdak

At 40mph, your bike is capable of coming to a complete stop in less than 72 feet. The average for a professional rider is 68 feet.

At 40 MPH this would not have been a problem. At 60+ (speed limit was 65) it was. I still got her stopped in under a hundred feet (after applying the brakes), 2-up, and I weigh in at over 260 without the lead boots. Overall I think we did pretty well, just not as well as I would want to if I had to do it again. It was my decision time that caused the problem; the light turned yellow, we're doing 60+, and I debated whether to stop or go through it for a second too long. Won't be making that mistake again.

I was on the front brake HARD, as I use it for most of my braking and have never been able to lock it up. We had a definite nose-down attitude for most of the stop. I'm planning to do some parking lot exercises after watching Ride Like A Pro again; maybe I'll try harder to see if I can lock it under controlled conditions. Scares the hell out of me to think about it, though, to be quite honest.

[Nazzdak]

Originally Posted by DBotkin

I was on the front brake HARD, as I use it for most of my braking and have never been able to lock it up. We had a definite nose-down attitude for most of the stop. I'm planning to do some parking lot exercises after watching Ride Like A Pro again; maybe I'll try harder to see if I can lock it under controlled conditions. Scares the hell out of me to think about it, though, to be quite honest.

D-You have learned a very valuable lesson. And that is anytime you are in doubt, the prudent decision is to ALWAYS be prepared to STOP.

This also applies to the rear brake at speeds of 5mph or less. For anytime you are in a congested area, such as a parking lot or a gas station. Or, anytime you are approaching a "blind" intersection, your right foot should ALWAYS be covering the rear brake, prepared to STAB it at a moments notice. Under these conditions, the rear brake is even more effective than the front.

The nosediving effect is weight transfer. This is why the rear brake is essentially useless in a high speed emergency and why it is so important to say the words "one, one thousand" when you are squeezing the front brake. For it enables you to squeeze the front brake even HARDER as the bike is coming CLOSER to the desired point of a complete stop. Squeeze the front brake hard enough, on the right type of bike, and it will begin to "stand up" on the front wheel.

The front wheel only locks up when the front brake is "jerked" or "grabbed" for there hasn't been enough time for weight from the back of the motorcycle, to transfer to the front. Try to think of this way. When you are braking proficiently, ( squeezing the front lever while counting out loud "one, one, thousand") approximately 800 pounds of weight transfers to the front tire. This in turn, creates enormous amounts of tire traction to the road, which allows you, the rider, to be very aggressive with the front brake. Under such circumstances, you could squeeze the front lever all the way back to the handle bar grip, and you STILL would not induce a front wheel lock up.

It's happened to me recently when approaching an on ramp of an Interstate. I misjudged my speed coming in. All of the sudden the cars in front of me are stopping far faster, and far sooner than I anticipated. Yet, the proper braking technique under these circumstances is to continue to SQUEEZE that front lever all the way back to handle bar grip before you even THINK about using the BOTH brakes.

Basically, anytime the motorcycle is traveling at speeds of 25mph or more, and you need to get as much speed out of the motor, in the shortest time possible, the proper braking technique is, and always will be...

FRONT BRAKE!
FRONT BRAKE!
FRONT BRAKE!

take care,
David