Question on slow turns

[mattVA]

So I'm wondering the proper technique to practice for doing tight u-turns. I've heard to feather the rear break while maintaining the friction zone, look all the way to the left or to the right. What I don't quite understand is the rear break part. .can someone explain the reasoning behind why this works? And exactly what I ought to be doing with the break during the maneuver?

Thanks,
-matt

[garyad]

Originally Posted by mattVA

So I'm wondering the proper technique to practice for doing tight u-turns. I've heard to feather the rear break while maintaining the friction zone, look all the way to the left or to the right. What I don't quite understand is the rear break part. .can someone explain the reasoning behind why this works? And exactly what I ought to be doing with the break during the maneuver?

Thanks,
-matt

Working the rear brake helps you control your speed while your doing the throttle "friction zone" clutch thing and like you said look through the turn.

[Bluzmn59]

You need to get the DVD, "Ride Like a Pro." It explains it and gives you several drills to practice it. When your bike is under power, it is very stable. The combination of being in the friction zone with the clutch, giving the bike throttle, yet controlling the speed with the rear brake makes the bike extremely stable at low speeds.

Practice, practice, practice. It becomes second nature very quickly.

[kelly]

your scooter will follow your chin--keep your head up and look over your shoulder. (free your mind your ass will follow)

If you look down during execution, you will blow the U turn every time.

[pjciii]

I know from experience that the combination of the 3 work very well. also in mountian curves. i have used the front brake with horrible results..it will take you right down in a tight U turn at slow speeds..its that would search, evaluate, execute and look out for other drivers

[Mr Cujo]

+1 on Ride like a Pro...Don't ask, just buy it...

To further answer your question, the wheels are like giant gyros.. keeping power applied to them helps them want to stand up, hence helping to keep the bike balanced and upright. The brakes and use of the friction zone are to control speed as well as applied power.


As all above have said, look where you WANT to go..not where you are..This is very easy to preach, but at least for me, is a lesson that is difficult to maintain. My mind desperately wants want to look at what is right in front of me and I have to force myself to look farther away..It gets easier with practice, but sometimes I have to talk myself into the right procedure.

Also repeating.. there is a giant invisible magnet following you under the ground wherever you are.. If you suddenly drop power or touch the front brake while in a low speed turn, the magnet kicks on and you will be sucked to the ground in nanoseconds....and your wife or significant other will look at you sternly from her new position on the asphalt, and ask you "What the hell was that?"
... don't ask me how I know this....

.

[Bluzmn59]

That whole "look where you want to go" thing is gospel. It does take awhile to get used to trusting what is directly in front of you so you can look through the turn, but it works. If you ever watch Moto-GP or AMA racers, they do it, even when right on another riders rear. If you look for it, you can clearly see them looking past the other rider in the direction of the curve. If it works for them.......

[mungo]

+1 on Mr. Cujo's answer.

The reasoning is all in gyroscopic stability. Sad thing is I didn't learn this until after about 20 years of riding. If I'd have only know it sooner, I'd have saved a lot of money on fairings and chrome.

[03GLIDE_]

I agree with all of the above. Using the rear brake is a must doing tight U turns. And always look where you want to go when riding.

[mattVA]

Thanks for all the replies guys n' gals. Guess I'll be getting some practice time in this weekend. . .

[Nazzdak]

Question on slow turns

So I'm wondering the proper technique to practice for doing tight u-turns. I've heard to feather the rear break while maintaining the friction zone, look all the way to the left or to the right. What I don't quite understand is the rear break part. .can someone explain the reasoning behind why this works? And exactly what I ought to be doing with the break during the maneuver?

Thanks,
-matt

Hi- Matt

1. The clutch, not the rear brake, should be the PRIMARY tool used to control the motor at slow speeds. Thus, if you are really sincere about practicing slow speed stuff, It is highly likely that your clutch needs to be adjusted to Police bike standards. This adjustment can be done by any reputable dealer and only takes 10-15 minutes.

2. Once you get comfortable with your clutch, only then, would I begin to incorporate the rear brake. The idea, at that point in time, is to place your right foot on the pedal, without applying ANY pressure. That's what they mean by "feathering"...i.e..as you begin to master the rear brake, it should not make ANY difference whether you put a feather, or your right FOOT on the brake pedal.

The result is the same. Mind over matter.

3. These practice techniques are designed, in this order, so that you will have 100% control over your motorcycle in the REAL WORLD. My riding group has a series of exercise videos demonstrating these clutch/rear brake techniques at www.youtube.com/conedown

good luck!
David

[merlinii]

Slight throttle, friction zone and light rear brake is the mechanics.
Head AND eyes is the physical part. As previously said...Look where you WANT to go.

But the ride Like a Pro DVD and practice the exercises! It does take disipline to master the manuvers.

[splatter]

I suppose I'm being a little pedantic here, but there is no gyroscopic force in play during the slow speed turn. The wheels aren't massive enough nor are they turning fast enough for that.

The biggest issue in a slow, tight turn is leaning the bike over because, as we know, that's how bikes turn. Leaning is scary and folks unused to the feeling are afraid the bike is going to tip. Trailing the brake slightly puts tension into the drive train and lifts the bike on its suspension making a tip-over very unlikely. It helps immensely to shift your weight to the outside which will let the bike lean over even more --it's not neccessary but it will tighten the turning radius.

Another thing that I've observed on all good slow-riders (that they deny doing) is that before taking a U-turn left, they do a quick dip to the right, then bring the bike around. (Or vice-versa for a right hand U) The magic there is that after that little dip, you're bringing the bike around in a nice arc which bikes like to do. Without the dip you're trying to make the bike turn 90 degrees, which it can't. When you see a good rider do this, it's like he/she is dancing with the bike.

The comment on controlling speed with the clutch in the friction zone is a little misleading. You can do that, but it's not whay you want to do for well controlled slow-speed riding. The deal with friction zone at slow speed is you want to find a place where even if you rev the engine, the bike speed won't change. That takes the throttle out of the equation and you set your speed with the brake. The whole exercise becomes left hand and right foot. At that spot, you can take the bike down to (slow) walking speed and maintain control. If you're controlling the speed with the clutch, it will be sensitive to throttle changes and when you do that U to the left, you'll race the engine, the bike will surge, you'll pull in the clutch and drop the bike. Seen it; done it.

[TheNowhereman]

The guy who commented on using the clutch has his **** together.
If your braking during a u turn, get a Vespa.
Give it some throttle and take it away by the clutch, not the brake.

[Mr Cujo]

I suppose I'm being a little pedantic here, but there is no gyroscopic force in play during the slow speed turn. The wheels aren't massive enough nor are they turning fast enough for that.

Not much of a physicist here, but it seems to me that the applied torque to the drive train, in addition to it's rotational mass, will have some gyroscopic effect.. Not as much to be sure as highway speed, but enough to induce some amount of lifting/straightening/ (or other suitable word that I can't call to command right at this moment...) force.
Witness a racer who loses control at the starting line.. the bike flies forward --yet somewhat upright-- for a short distance until finally crashing.
I'm a dummy tho..so who the hell knows?

Another thing that I've observed on all good slow-riders (that they deny doing).....

This technique is CLEARLY identified, suggested, and practices on the RLAP video. Dunno who yer pallin' around with, but seems to me the really good riders not only admit it...but preach it...

When you see a good rider do this, it's like he/she is dancing with the bike.

Yup..a thing of beauty...

1. The clutch, not the rear brake, should be the PRIMARY tool used to control the motor at slow speeds. Thus, if you are really sincere about practicing slow speed stuff, It is highly likely that your clutch needs to be adjusted to Police bike standards. This adjustment can be done by any reputable dealer and only takes 10-15 minutes.

Didn't know that.. Good info.... I'll make sure it gets "fixed" .. Thank you kindly Sir...


If anyone is still in question, search youtube for Ride Like A Pro. You'll see the clips.. then you'll buy the vid...

Just offering... ...educate me at will.