handling a downhill curve

[candubrain]

I read in a motorcycle magazine that when going into a turn you should get on the gas as soon as you can, to take the extra load off the front tire, so that there is less chance of it sliding. The author was saying that even when you are coasting through a turn, there is extra weight transfered to the front tire, and that you can reach the breaking point for traction. This person is a instructor at a superbike school in Calif.

How would you handle going downhill and into a curve? I'm always nervous with a downhill curve, especially going down mountains in the rain.

[Milehog]

There may be something to that if you are riding at or near the traction limit. With our Harley's woeful cornering clearance we can't approach said traction limit so I don't think that affects us as much as the sport bikes. That said throttling through the corner can, in some cases, make the bike feel stable.
Downhill curves? Give yourself a little extra cushion and, as always, apex late. Stay relaxed, that helps also.

[candubrain]

Originally Posted by Milehog

There may be something to that if you are riding at or near the traction limit. With our Harley's woeful cornering clearance we can't approach said traction limit so I don't think that affects us as much as the sport bikes. That said throttling through the corner can, in some cases, make the bike feel stable.
Downhill curves? Give yourself a little extra cushion and, as always, apex late. Stay relaxed, that helps also.

My big mistake, being nervous, I start the turn ASAP taking the inside, even though I've read not to.

[Milehog]

As with anything, the first step is to recognise the behavior you want to change. Get in the habit of noticing if you're squeezing the hand grips, breathing, tensed up, ect.
Practice on a familiar set of curves. After you become more comfortable with the late apex on them it'll be easier everywhere else.

[route66paul]

Do you practice countersteering? You need to get that down pat before you try any tricky moves. You are riding a FLHTC, that is a lot different than a v-rod or a foreign sportbike.
It is like driving a porshe and a 2 1/4 ton truck. It is a different animal. Take it slow until you are more sure, practice countersteering, and be careful when dragging your floorboards.

[Fourcats]

Slow corners. Going down hill you effectivly GAIN momentum and LOOSE traction. Throw in a curve, centrifical force and gravity are added to the mix. Off camber is worse yet.
Don't go fast in SLOW CORNERS, as there is little to be gained. Going FAST in fast corners gives you more speed and distance, with far less risk.
At Willow, turns 3-4-5 are slow, with turns 7-8-9-1-2 being fast. Turn 6 is on the gas, but not to hard.

Buy/read a book and take a Superbike course, its well worth it. I took the course at Willow 4 times and my copy of "Twist of the Wrist" well worn.

[DBotkin]

Originally Posted by candubrain

My big mistake, being nervous, I start the turn ASAP taking the inside, even though I've read not to.

I have found that taking curves slow will lead to that. At low speeds on dry pavement, it doesn't make a bit of difference WHERE you apex, unless there's an obstruction you can't see around. Taking a late apex line is still a good habit to get into, so when you're going faster, in crappy conditions, with obstructions, you do it automatically.

I had a stretch of road I was using to practice on. Nice, gentle curves, following a river bank, 45 MPH speed limit is conservative even in a deuce and a half. I have to force myself to take a late apex, becuase there's SO little lean in the corners. It's very easy to just basically ignore the best practices and enjoy the view, which I sometimes do. For cornering practice, though, I find it helps to speed up some so it doesn't "feel" like a nearly straight road. Of course that's not very practical in most situations, since I dislike speeding tickets.

Much better for cornering practice is the 25 MPH road through a semi-developed new area near my house. Tight curves, many off camber, up and down hill. At 35 it gets fun, at 45 it's more challenging than I usually feel like taking it even on 4 wheels. As an added bonus, there are sprinklers that sometimes get the lanes wet in a close to random fashion. It's a short stretch, but very useful.

My point - I do have one, honest - is that it's much harder to practice good cornering techniques on roads and under conditions where you don't need to use them. Make sense?

[Paniolo]

Make sure you have braked well before entering the curve.
TURN YOUR HEAD, and look as far as you can through the curve. An outside-inside-outside path of travel will help you do that. Be off the brakes as you enter the curve, with your clutch out. You do not want to suck in the clutch and coast through the curve. For a more stable and smoother trip through the corner, you need to be on the throttle. Not a whole lot, but just enough to power yourself through. This will stabilize the suspension and keep you from wobbling. It will also give you more ground clearance, and more lean clearance. Make sure you have braked/slowed down, to the proper entry speed for the curve. If the curve is down hill then brake even more before entering so that you can transmit power to the rear wheel all the way through the curve. If you feel yourself drifting and uprighting, look through the curve, and press forward more on the inside hand grip while maintaining a steady, or increased throttle. This will make the bike lean more, and turn tighter. Do not look down, do not look to the side of the curve, and do not look at the car in the on coming lane. Keep your head up, and your eyes level.

Go find yourself a quiet lonely curve and practice, practice, practice. Do this in both directions until you are relaxed and it is second nature. You do not want to find yourself in a curve and have to start thinking. By then it's too late.

If you are riding in the rain, then SLOW DOWN.

[RK05]

I have noticed too when I am riding in turns that if I'm not focusing on the exit of the turn and looking instead at whats right in front of me that I loose my line and have to correct.

[Ken R]

Don't forget that the consequences of failure to negotiate a curve are almost always going to be catastrophic.

In a righ-hand curve, you face the possiblity of veering into oncoming traffic. In a left hand, you're either into the trees, off the side of the mountain, or into the face of a cliff. None of these will be pretty. And it'll probably hurt . . . a lot.

On the internet, I've seen plenty of instances where competent riders have misnegotiated curves and been injured, killed, maimed, and at the least their motors were badly damaged. I know two people that have personally ridden their motors off the side of the road in curves. Both survived, but damage to themselves and their machines was extensive.

Nearing my 60 years old mark, I pretty much stay the posted speed limit now when entering a curve. I tend to roll on the throttle slightly as the end of the curve comes into view or when I can see that no rocks, gravel, or animals might give me a problem. If going downhill, I might even be 5-under the posted speed until my confidence is gained.

I have experience from about 8 years ago of not making a downhill curve at 40mph. Anyone ever travel Texas 16 from Kerville to Medina? If so, you know the spot.

Luckily, it was on my bicycle so the damage to the bicycle wasn't too expensive to fix. Unfortunately, the damage to me was extensive, requiring 8 hours of emergency surgery and 4 months of handicap until recovery. Still have Titanium and screws in my leg to prove it. I could have lost my life. Nothing will re-calibrate one's senses like a good hard-hitting accident. No amount of peer pressure will get me to take chances that might put me beyond my personal limit on twisty roads.

Ken

[Moxi]

Countersteering is your friend.

[Paniolo]

Originally Posted by Ken R

Don't forget that the consequences of failure to negotiate a curve are almost always going to be catastrophic.

So true.
Failure to negoatotiate a curve is the number one cause of single motorcycle accidents.

[candubrain]

thanks Guys, all good advice. I've been riding for 30yrs, the biggest thing I learnt, it hurts more when you go down, hence me being more nervous. All of you hit the most important thing, Practice. Which is what I will be doing, especially using the outside apex.
thanks again

[sthorp]

Originally Posted by candubrain

How would you handle going downhill and into a curve? I'm always nervous with a downhill curve, especially going down mountains in the rain.

Watch your speed, use your engine and the right gear to hold speed down as much as possible, use brakes sparingly, look ahead constantly so you know how to react especially if there is any debris on the roadway, gently throttle out of the curves, if impatient people start to ride you pull over if possible to let them pass.

Turning generates friction, which slows the motorcycle (or any other vehicle). This is a physical constant, and therefore we factor it in, without noticing it. What this means is that on level ground, if you hold the throttle position constant, and make a turn, you loose some speed. This is amplified somewhat on an uphill curve, due to gravity. Again, since this occurs all the time, we don't notice it.

On a downhill curve, gravity more than compensates for the friction generated by turning. In a car we've all been driving long enough that we no longer feel this is odd. On a motorcycle it leads to a more uncomfortable feeling, especially since it is often combined with a tendency to not keep your focus as far out on the downhill curves.

It would be like switching to a car with out power brakes, after being used to having them. Although the brakes are still perfectly effective, they would feel "wrong" until you worked with them enough to get used to them. When you're on the downhill curves, the machine feels "different".

The downhill curves make it more difficult for most of us to keep our focus out ahead, and "through" the curve. Curves with an obstructed view are particularly difficult, because you have to look down your path, which means you must look at the obstruction while "focusing" through it.

The first key is to master countersteering. After that, if you change your "line" through the curve, you can gain comfort. Instead of using a "racing" line (Outside setup - inside at the apex - Outside exit) you are better off taking a "late apex" line. This line requires setting up to the outside, and staying to the outside of your lane past the curve's apex, then cutting to inside of the curve at the exit. This method gives you maxumum view around the obstruction, and leaves you the most options should you find an obstacle in your path. You can simply let the bike drift out, if there's a problem, rather than having to tighten your turn.

Harris