I'd like your opinion

[The Tourist]

Good afternoon ladies. My name is Chico, and I have have been a Harley rider for over 30 years. I am an 'inactive' (but still considered part) of the Madison, Wisconsin CC Riders Motorcycle Club, riding active from 1969 until 1974. I've heard every joke in the book.

But times have changed, and I had to change with them. I was at Capital City Harley this afternoon, watching several Fat-Boys come in with capable female riders.

I am also a member of a combat pistol forum. As you can well imagine, I get myself into a world of trouble over there with my mouth. Several times the moderators there have censored my opinions and jokes.

I was distressed today to find that one of the moderators himself listed the following batch of jokes, usually using the 'wife' as the punchline. I complained,and I told them that stuff was old hat and inappropriate.

Now when it comes time to censor their tongues I'm told to 'relax,' 'roll with the punches,' 'quit making a big deal out of a few gags.'

Well, I do think it's a big deal. This stuff smears my wife, as well. However, some times I'm out of line. I tell jokes about myself, about Sicilians or bikers in general. But that's about me.

I want you to read the jokes, tell me what you think. Is it harmless humor, or a slam to women who can finally ride free. If I'm the bozo, tell me then.

Here's the column, the jokes follow.



I received this in my email and my reason for posting is good men everywhere should just read this and not be swayed to think other than women deserve the best. So if you have a spare Wilson .45 or other give it to your wife in appreciation for her strong support.

How many men does it take to open a beer?

None. It should be opened when she brings it.

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Why is a Laundromat a really bad place to pick up a woman?

Because a woman who can't even afford a washing machine will probably never be able to support you.

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How do you fix a woman's watch?

You don't. There is a clock on the oven.

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Why do men fart more than women?

Because women can't shut up long enough to

build up the required pressure.

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If your dog is barking at the back door and your wife is yelling at the front door, who do you let in first?

The dog, of course. He'll shut up once you let him in.

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Women will never be equal to men until they can

walk down the street with a bald head and a beer

gut, and still think they are sexy.

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In the beginning, God created the earth and rested.

Then God created Man and rested.

Then God created Woman.

Since then, neither ! God nor Man has rested.

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__________________
Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may.
Mark Twain

[hogg831]

I removed the link, one rule here is not to bring other topics/incidents/feuds from other forums to this board.

Now to the point, there will always be post that might not appeal to your sensitivities or rub you the wrong way. Sometimes old jokes fall in that category. I see things posted here that are borderline, but not flagrantly degrading or putting a certain group in the most stereotypical terms. Sometimes you just have to click and move on.

Public boards, as a matter of fact, the internet is not really the place to take the high ground to the point of banning or censor, unless you own the domain name.

[LwRdr]

I don't find it degrating...I have an amazing ability to laugh at myself..often...



Gina

[The Tourist]

Sorry, for the link. I did not know that was against the rules here. I wanted people to read it in context.

After reading the jokes here, would you let them appear in VTF without comment or censor? Quite frankly I was surprised to see them anywhere on the boards in this day and age. Commedians on TV quit this drivel in the 1960's.

Frankly, I was embarrassed to have called these idiots friends.

Edit: To Gina, thanks. I do the same. In fact I often 'bend' the set-up in jokes to use myself as the punchline. My choice. Glad you have an honest sense of humor.

[xl-scratch]

Chico, I think they're kinda sorta funny on the surface, but they kinda sorta reveal something about the person who's telling the jokes...If I heard a guy telling jokes like this in person and I didn't know him well, I'd probably think he doesn't like or respect women much. (I don't mean you--even though I don't know you, I appreciate your soliciting opinions in this forum and based on your post you seem like a thoughtful person.) I think the less stereotyping that goes on (and that's what these jokes basically are, IMHO), the better. (Problem is, you can always find individual examples of people fitting stereotypes!) My $.02.

Laura

P.S. Were you really surprised to find jokes like this online??? I only WISH they were that hard to find

[The Tourist]

xl-scratch,

Thank you for responding. My concern goes deeper than the jokes.

For example, during the 1960's and early 1970's some motels did not want motorcycle business. Why? Because they "knew" bikers were all animals that spilled liquor all over, fornicated on their rugs, stole the ashtrays and left the bathrooms like a pig pen. After all, there were jokes about bikers, even cartoons in older editions of "Big Bike."

Let's be real. During that same time you could go into a Harley shop and hear racial jokes told openly. I told them myself. I haven't heard things like that in 15 years. Oh, it's done, in soft whispers with the guy looking both ways before he starts the joke. I've stopped a guy cold in his tracks when I replied, "Wait, I'm Sicilian and my wife is blonde."

And Laura, I try to be a thoughtful person, now. Thirty years ago I told worse jokes and chased women for sport. I also saw the damage and I hurt a lot of people.

Do I look at a woman in a bikini on a chrome bike? You bet. But running some one down for the sake of a joke has nothing to do with motorcyling. My opinion is that the guy's a clod no matter how he drove there.

[LwRdr]

you are always gonna offend some....you can't worry about it, just be who you are...I don't know you, but I like you already...

[The Tourist]

LwRdr,

It also came from 'gun people.' You know, the guys who squeak the loudest when a liberal spears them in the press. Then they turn around and degrade someone else.

You ride, you're an equal. Anything else is BS. Of course, I'll tease you.

[FLBikerchick]

People who truly think that way aren't worth the time of day. Same goes for racists, extremists, reactionaries, raving anarchists, etc. If you take those statements as jokes, however, some of them can be funny. It all depends on your point of view.

Funny you should ask about whether it's a slam to women riders. I was just telling my friend and roommate the other day that I had noticed how different riders reacted to me on the road. Women, riders or passengers, will always look and wave as I go by. Older riders, Goldwingers, and riders you might think of as "bikers" always seem to wave. Obvious RUBs (yes, there are some obvious ones) and "1%ers" don't. They usually won't even look. Sportbikers seem to wave if I do, otherwise not. I find the reaction of the different groups to women riders to be very interesting.

[The Tourist]

It's funny that you mention 'racists.'

It seems that I have become a real thorn in the side of the mods over there. First I complain about the stupid jokes, and then I took them to task for the way they trashed a news story on the construction of an Islamic temple.

I guess if you laugh at stupid redneck jokes and trash the right ethnic group you're an okay guy.

I got a private message from the moderator that I should lurk for a while. I've heard that snippy, condescending tone before. "Perhaps now isn't a good time to stir things up repealling the helmet law, don't cause any trouble."

Frack. Too late. And not just about being a biker. I weighed a little over ten pounds at birth when my Mother weighed 98 pounds. I was born causing trouble.

FLBikerchick, I'd be happy to wave to you.

BTW, I have a long history of swimming against the tide. Ask some of the old timers how I dressed for the 1970 CC Riders Halloween Party.

[hdmarsh77]

Hey Chico, I'm sorry this is completely off topic but are you the knife guy? If so then I met you at Cap City one day. You might not remember me, but I'm Justin. You gave me your card because I have some dull knives. If that's not you, sorry.

As for your original post, I think sometimes it's best to just let a joke be a joke. There are some tastless ones out there but to someone it's funny. I am somewhat short and have heard every "short joke" and I still think they're funny as hell. Hell, I'll make fun of myself right along with them as long as the joke tellers can take it when I send it back at them. But, there is a time and a place for jokes and if you feel that wasn't either then let them know. Good Luck.

[The Tourist]

Justin, yes, I'm "the knife guy." I used to be a credit manager, but after 25 years of helping jerks, I started to sharpen and sell knives.

BTW, my 'stand' on this issue got me banned from the CCW forum.

And you know what, I'm proud to be banned.

As you know, one of the saleswomen at Capital is a woman who rides a bagger and a 95-inch deuce. The woman who sang at my wedding has ridden for thirty years and probably rides twice the yearly mileage of most men. Watch some of the Sturgis footage on TV coverage; you see a lot of women riding Harleys down the main street.

I didn't want to make this a crusade. However, if some citizen made a comment that all bikers were shiftless, drunken throwbacks to the era of The Booze Fighter, we would receive a flood of letters from decent people, mothers, CMA riders and commuters on how times have changed.

This is also an area that has changed. As I've stated, a great looking girl photgraphed on a chrome Harlely gets my attention.

However, the sport has changed and gone deeper than that.

I was a club member, in the traditional sense. I don't have to prove my credentials to anyone. My colors hang in the closet and stand testiment to my commitment to the sport of motorcycling.

This "dumb wife" era is over. And I think that mod is an ignorant jerk (this is the only clean language I can think of right now) for dredging this up for a cheap laugh. I'm sure he also has a joke book from the 1950's insulting all ethnic groups, as well.

[marthared]

I've heard almost all those jokes, and I always just laugh and roll my eyes.. they're kinda funny. Hey, it all equals out.... Haven't you heard jokes about men and couch-potatoes, men and affection (lack of), jokes about mens' insensitivites, etc.... There's tons of jokes and negative, comical, TV commercials about men... how dumb they are (what they're portreyed as), how fat they are, how bald they are, etc...... I'm pretty light-hearted, so I just laugh and don't get offended by much...

[The Tourist]

Marthared,

The story ain't over.

I think it goes deeper than a few old jokes. I'll remind you of what xl-scratch had said about it revealing more of the man he is. What you probably didn't know is that as a mod he also let a thread go about the building of an Islamic temple which evoked some negative comments.

Oh, I'm an adult. I've heard race-bating, and the guys had a right to vent. My idea of a mod is a guy who realizes that some racial and sexist comments have no part in forum discourse.

I did some soul searching on this issue; I liked some of the guys there, in fact, one of the members would fit in here very nicely. But there is a moral problem here. If I condemn his actions, then I shouldn't look the other way just to have a bit of fun.

I didn't make a big deal of it, but I slipped in one night and zeroed my avatar and shut off all of my personal info. In effect, I 'banned' myself. Again, a hard choice, but my friends will follow, or at least understand and be my friends outside the forum.

What's the old toast, "Champaign to my real friends and real pain to my sham friends."

So, guess what--and this will tickle you. The guy is so paranoid that he has been lurking in VTF to see what we say about him. I mean, if his motives were pristine and the jokes were 'harmless,' why would he care?

I have several fake e-mail addresses to disfuse spam and to use just for business. And I got a hate letter. Here's the line that made me laugh:

"You think I am an "ignorant jerk" and I think you are a burnt out old Sicillian biker club member"

He claims he's not a sexist or a racist, and then he seeks to insult me and what does he use but a racial epithet. He also made some comments on my being bipolar, which is no secret, but it is clear he feels it is a sign of dementia.

I believe that under this is a guy who portrays himself to be open-minded, that is, until he hears a good 'dumb wife' joke. A guy who who is proud to have Italian friends until the Dago leaves the room. And this is why I made such a big deal of 'a few silly jokes.'

I might be an old biker, but I'm careful who I drink with. I don't cover for husbands who cheat (I lost the friendship of the best man at my wedding for this very thing), I'm sorry for the racial and sexist behavior of my youth and I think 'real men' don't need to put anyone down to elevate their own status.

Again, I laughed when I read his letter, and I am proud to be banned for the women here. I'm sure that you know the average biker teases you, and I will continue that myself. But in the serious matters, a real biker shares the road and some times that's for a woman.

We are not all like this clod. But like Laura said, this shows who he is. Lets show him who we are.

[LwRdr]

Originally Posted by The Tourist

Lets show him who we are.

people like us, are and always will be a threat to him, because we are who he wants to be, but doesn't know how....the only person you ever have to prove yourself to, is yourself...