The nitty-gritty of SYN3

[doyall]

Finally got a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on the SYN-3 after two months of trying. It is in fact manufactured by Citgo Petroleum. Composition section reads like this:

Component
CAS #
Concentration

(1) 1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated
68037-01-4
50% - 70%

(2) Proprietary Ingredients
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%

(3) Polyisobutylene
9003-27-4
1% - 10%

(4) Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic
64742-54-7
0% - 20%

(5) Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic
64741-88-4
0% - 20%

(6) Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate
68649-42-3
0% - 2%

Item 1 is a Group IV base oil. I was unable to locate the manufacturer of this base oil. Group IV and V base oils are the only "true" synthetics to the cognoscenti.

Item 2 is probably their additive package (boron, calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, moly), but it is conceivable there could also be some "secret" synthetic oil, maybe an ester type oil, included in it.

Item 3 is a fancy name for synthetic rubber (or elastomer) but this is probably considered to be "synthetic" oil as well.

However, Item 4 is a Group II base oil, namely Conoco Pure Performance Base Oil, either 110N, 225N or 600N. To my knowledge, no one is calling a Group II oil a synthetic.

Research yielded no information on the group number of Item 5 but it is Conoco's Cit-Con 650N Base Oil. Can't help but presume that it is a Group I oil as it is solvent refined. While they have their place, most quality blenders are not using Group I oils in thier premium motor oils and they certainly are not considered synthetics. However, I stand to be corrected.

(Also got a MSDS for the HD 360 20w50 oil. The major base oil constituients in it are the same ones as are listed in Items 4 & 5 above.)

In any case, here is what Harley-Davidson says about this stuff in their advertising:


quote:
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Developed with a proprietary blend of three synthetic basestocks, ...
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If there are significant amounts of Group I and II oils in the SYN3, could the MoCo have streached the definition of "synthetic" a bit further than Castrol did when changing Syntec from a PAO Group IV base to a hydrocracked Group III base? Wonder if ExxonMobil will go after them and we will get a new definition for "synthetic?"

To me, SYN3 is not worth $8.25/qt.

[03glide]

To avoid conflict I've quit using oil.

[ValB626]

Wow, doyall. Thanks for the research!

So what's the correct solution here?

[Flyer]

Adding to the confusion.....

Article

[doyall]

quote:

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Adding to the confusion.....
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Thanks for the link. I think it relieves my confusion. After the "discount" M1 V-Twin I have is gone, it's M1 15w50 'red cap' in the engine.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Originally posted by doyall
If there are significant amounts of Group I and II oils in the SYN3, could the MoCo have streached the definition of "synthetic" a bit further than Castrol did when changing Syntec from a PAO Group IV base to a hydrocracked Group III base? Wonder if ExxonMobil will go after them and we will get a new definition for "synthetic?"

To me, SYN3 is not worth $8.25/qt.

No Mobil has lost that lawsuit once. They tried to go after a few oil companies for advertising blends as full synthetic. Mobil lost, the oil companies do not have to disclose on the label it contains Group I, II or III base stocks which are all petrolium based.

So it is legal for Harley to market syn3 as a full synthetic, even though it is only 60% syntetic and the rest petrolium based.

Solution buy a full synthic if you want syntetic. You can by Mobil 1 or Amsoil which are both full synthetics for less money than syn3.

[george douglas]

I will drink to that. I just gave my road king a long deserved oil change. I finally put the 20w 50 amsoil in the tranny instead of the 75w 90 gearlube. For a tranny that shifted pretty good in the first place, it really shifts nice now. Figured if I am selling the Amsoil for all three cavities, I ought to be using it the same way.

[PhilRKC]

Wow,

Thanks for clarifying this, now i know exactly what i am going to use..

PhilRKC

[csoday]

Me to, SYN3, it works

[VA V-Rod]

I'll stick with Mobil 1 V-Twin motor oil, it's synthetic and I still think you can't do better than Mobil. I have also seen some debates regarding Amsoil, the tests are done by lab they own and they make the results look like they are from an independent lab. No guessing how they come out in their tests.

I still don't see any way a small firm could ever have the R&D money Mobil does. I changed mine over to V-Twin oil at 500 miles (8500 miles ago) and have already done the same to the wife 03 Low Rider.

Dave

[Thealien]

regarding independant testing. Here is a site that is in the middle of some independant testing. They started with mobil1, they just now started testing amsoil, and plan on testing a couple others. They are testing in cars but I still think it will be interesting to watch as it progresses. Look at the left of the page and click on the link to see some of the data. All around some interesting reading.

Interesting!!!

[King Rider]

Originally posted by Thealien
regarding independant testing. Here is a site that is in the middle of some independant testing. They started with mobil1, they just now started testing amsoil, and plan on testing a couple others. They are testing in cars but I still think it will be interesting to watch as it progresses. Look at the left of the page and click on the link to see some of the data. All around some interesting reading.

Interesting!!!

Hey. Thanks. Thats interesting

[george douglas]

Originally posted by VA V-Rod
I'll stick with Mobil 1 V-Twin motor oil, it's synthetic and I still think you can't do better than Mobil. I have also seen some debates regarding Amsoil, the tests are done by lab they own and they make the results look like they are from an independent lab. No guessing how they come out in their tests.

I still don't see any way a small firm could ever have the R&D money Mobil does. I changed mine over to V-Twin oil at 500 miles (8500 miles ago) and have already done the same to the wife 03 Low Rider.

Dave

Dave,
You sound like you have a problem with the Amsoil company and their testing. Beleive me Amsoil doesn't own any labs and pays for their testing at labs like southwest research just like any other company does. If they weren't sure about their claims they put on the bottle, especially claims when they use the oil company's name in the test comparisons, they would be sued out of business long ago if it wasn't accurate. As far as using Mobil 1, I say go for it. If I didn't use amsoil, Mobil would be my choice.

[george douglas]

Originally posted by Thealien
regarding independant testing. Here is a site that is in the middle of some independant testing. They started with mobil1, they just now started testing amsoil, and plan on testing a couple others. They are testing in cars but I still think it will be interesting to watch as it progresses. Look at the left of the page and click on the link to see some of the data. All around some interesting reading.

Interesting!!!

Alien,
Neat article on oil and the testing that the guys at paradise garage are attempting. I have hundreds of oil reports that I have done over the last 20 plus years on my equipment and customers. I have been surprised at the oil sample results when farm equipment working in the dirt would come back good and the oil could be used longer. Amsoil has been promoting and guarantying longer use of it's oil now for over 30 years so I don't expect any earth shattering results from this testing they are doing. I have many over the road truckers running their oil for 100,000 miles between changes with oil filter changes at 25,000 mile intervals.

[Zadok]

Crank Case......Mobil 1 V-twin

Primary Case......HD Primary

Trans......Red Line Shockproof


Enough Said......