Starting issues... : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

TheFu · 04-21-2004, 04:25 PM

Well, I'm new to this forum and I need help.

I have a 2000 RK Classic (EFI) and I am having starting issues. I have just taken it out from winter storage.

I have had the battery load tested at the dealer and its fine. Basically, here is what happens.

- I turn on the switches
- The engine light goes out
- I press the start button
- The engine goes "ruh" and then the starter clicks and turns off. it seems to be turning the engine about 1/4 turn before giving out.
- The interesting thing i found now is that the clutch cable is warm all the way to the lever and the connection nuts under the boot on the clutch cable were hot.
- The clutch cable now seems to be not moving smoothly inside the cable.

Help...please...please say its something simple.

Ed Y · 04-21-2004, 05:44 PM

Your bike is grounding thru the clutch cable. The major ground underneath the seat is either loose or corroded. That's easily fixed. Bad news is that the clutch cable will have to be replaced. Now that's no big thing if you do your own work. It's not a big job but most of the exhaust system has to get off to get to the transmission end cover that the clutch threads into.

TheFu · 04-22-2004, 08:32 AM

inspection of the main ground (attaches to the starter mounting plate) seems to be original in that it is snug and no appearance of any corrosion.

How/why would/could the bike ground through the clutch...that seems strange. Is there some sort of ground loop in the clutch?

I will remove that main ground just in case, but that doesn't seem to be it.

Also, is the clutch cable for sure a complete goner or can it be freed some how?

Thanks for the tips.

TBF

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Y

Your bike is grounding thru the clutch cable. The major ground underneath the seat is either loose or corroded. That's easily fixed. Bad news is that the clutch cable will have to be replaced. Now that's no big thing if you do your own work. It's not a big job but most of the exhaust system has to get off to get to the transmission end cover that the clutch threads into.

Sgt. Slaughter · 04-22-2004, 09:07 AM

If the cable from the engine to frame ground has high resistance (loose connection, corroded connectors, broken cable), the clutch cable is one of the only alternate paths to ground from the motor/trans, as the rubber mounts isolate the frame from the motor/trans assy. The steel clutch cable is connected from the trans at one end and at the bars (grounded to frame), completing the ground loop.

There is a teflon or nylon liner in the clutch cable assemby, and it has likely melted. As well, the heat might have damaged the lead cable ends, leading to a failure.

TheFu · 04-22-2004, 10:30 AM

I guess understand...but there still is only one cable eventually leading to the battery on the neg side...but you are saying that this cable is not providing too much resistance and the current is taking another path back to the battery...how? if this is the only lead going through to the neg side of the battery.

Sorry, I know this is somehow grounding through the clutch cable...it just doesn't seem to make sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt. Slaughter

If the cable from the engine to frame ground has high resistance (loose connection, corroded connectors, broken cable), the clutch cable is one of the only alternate paths to ground from the motor/trans, as the rubber mounts isolate the frame from the motor/trans assy. The steel clutch cable is connected from the trans at one end and at the bars (grounded to frame), completing the ground loop.

There is a teflon or nylon liner in the clutch cable assemby, and it has likely melted. As well, the heat might have damaged the lead cable ends, leading to a failure.

Sgt. Slaughter · 04-22-2004, 10:41 AM

There should be a second cable to ground the frame. It is either from the negative post to the frame, or from the engine to the frame. If you are grounding through the clutch cable (heating it up), this is the path the current is taking from the starter to the negative side of the battery.

I am at work, so cannot look at the bike or manual to see how the grounding works exactly.

Ed Y · 04-22-2004, 12:50 PM

Pull the seat and take a good look at the negative post on the battery. There is a short cable that goes to a post on the frame (1st ground). From that post is another cable to the starter support plate. You really have to look close and you can't get to the frame ground right there without removing the battery.

On the 2 other bikes I've seen with this problem, the inner liner on the cable was shot and both had to be replaced. They actually melted in places. Hard to say about yours but I'd bet the same thing happened.

By the way, both bikes that I was talking about were 2000 models, one a RK and one a EG.

TheFu · 04-23-2004, 12:53 AM

Great info Ed. That makes perfect sense now. I have the seat off, but I assumed that the cable from the battery went to the starter plate and thats that...wrong. Now I see that the cable reconnects and if the connection from the reconnection plate to the starter mounting bracket is shot, it will complete the ground loop through the clutch cable and then back through the frame since the engine is isolated via rubber mounts...like I said...now it makes PERFECT sense.

I will have to rip more apart (remove battery) to get at that connection.

Also, how difficult is a DIY on the clutch cable. Whats involved in the process?

Thanks again all...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Y

Pull the seat and take a good look at the negative post on the battery. There is a short cable that goes to a post on the frame (1st ground). From that post is another cable to the starter support plate. You really have to look close and you can't get to the frame ground right there without removing the battery.

On the 2 other bikes I've seen with this problem, the inner liner on the cable was shot and both had to be replaced. They actually melted in places. Hard to say about yours but I'd bet the same thing happened.

By the way, both bikes that I was talking about were 2000 models, one a RK and one a EG.

Ed Y · 04-23-2004, 06:18 AM

If you don't have a HD Service Manual for the bike, I'd strongly suggest you get one if you're going to do the kind of work like changing a clutch cable. It's not really difficult but exhaust has to be removed or shifted ( I just remove them) to get at the transmission end cover (the one where the trans dipstick is). You also need a new gasket for it and a O-ring for the new cable, if one doesn't come with it. Replacing the cable in the end cover is simple (with the manual and pictures to explain exactly how the cable fastens inside). The manual also helps when re-installing the exhaust since the sequence in which components are fastened is critical on touring bikes so the headpipes are put in a bind.

I would also suggest you clean all connections on the frame behind the battery while you have it off. Make sure the ground is to bare metal and put dielectric grease on all connections under there. Also check the main circuit breaker connections while you're there.