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Old 11-01-2011, 07:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Throttle By Wire Glitch

Today I was riding my 2009 Ultra Classic. I was going through some sweeping turns on and off the trottle and then nothing, no throttle response. The bike would idle but no throttle what so ever. Pulled over and turn the bike off and on several times, no change. I did this three times and finally my throttle came back... My bike has 28k on it and this is the first time this happend... Is this a glitch or is there something I should be looking at?

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Old 11-01-2011, 07:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Get it checked. This is not a glitch but a developing problem that will leave you stranded. I dont understand the moco going from cables that worked for 103 years to electronics that are life limited and not repairable by normal riders.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There have been a few reports of that issue on here.

As far as why go to throttle by wire? Hey, fighter jets have had it for decades. If it works on aircraft, it should work on a bike.

Blame the Moco for how they apply the tech, not the tech. If USAF pilots trust thier life to it, it should be fool proof on a bike.

And Cables aren't a lifetime thing either, I have heard of a lot more issues with cables than TBW. And other brands have had that tech a lot longer than HD. BMW for expample has a ton of electronics. TBW, ABS, Traction Control, and they pull it off without a hitch.

BTW, no issues yet with my 09 Ultra, 31K on it! Hope I'm not right around the corner from an issue!
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtie18 View Post
There have been a few reports of that issue on here.

As far as why go to throttle by wire? Hey, fighter jets have had it for decades. If it works on aircraft, it should work on a bike.

Blame the Moco for how they apply the tech, not the tech. If USAF pilots trust thier life to it, it should be fool proof on a bike.

And Cables aren't a lifetime thing either, I have heard of a lot more issues with cables than TBW. And other brands have had that tech a lot longer than HD. BMW for expample has a ton of electronics. TBW, ABS, Traction Control, and they pull it off without a hitch.

BTW, no issues yet with my 09 Ultra, 31K on it! Hope I'm not right around the corner from an issue!
You are right but jets have back ups for the back ups and are checked from stem to stern frequently and use the best technology available where the moco uses from the lowest bidder. Fighter jets probably have 3 or more hours maintainance for every 1 flight hour. I have had 2 buds that were left stranded recently because of tbw, one with 25k miles the other with less than 10k. Cables are life limited but the life can be extended with proper maint. and can easily and cheaply replaced by almost any shade tree wrench.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You need to check for any codes that were tripped...I know a guy that had the same thing happen to his '08. We got it in to a dealer and the tech knew exactly what was wrong..He pulled off a 4 wire flat plug from the throttle body and one of the wires going into the plug was broke..Tech said that he is seeing this happening a lot on '08 and '09s...
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKRDR2 View Post
You need to check for any codes that were tripped...I know a guy that had the same thing happen to his '08. We got it in to a dealer and the tech knew exactly what was wrong..He pulled off a 4 wire flat plug from the throttle body and one of the wires going into the plug was broke..Tech said that he is seeing this happening a lot on '08 and '09s...

the pins are a POS. 08 and 10's are worse.
sometimes just unplugging the connector on the T/B and hooking it back up ,then cycling the key 3 times will reset it.
if the pin has a cold solder then it will eventually have to be fixed.
some dealer just replace the harness.
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lonslo View Post
You are right but jets have back ups for the back ups and are checked from stem to stern frequently and use the best technology available where the moco uses from the lowest bidder. Fighter jets probably have 3 or more hours maintainance for every 1 flight hour. I have had 2 buds that were left stranded recently because of tbw, one with 25k miles the other with less than 10k. Cables are life limited but the life can be extended with proper maint. and can easily and cheaply replaced by almost any shade tree wrench.
All very good point, other than the lowest bidder thing! lol We always laughed, if somewhat nervously, that anything we drove, rode, or flew in was made by the lowest bidder. All too true in most cases.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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When the F-14 Tomcat was finally decommissioned, it was taking close to 75 man-hours for every flight hour to maintain. Still have fond memories of one of the finest aircraft the Navy ever launched from the flight deck of a carrier.
F-16N's were the first aircraft I saw that was fly by wire, and the Navy jet jocks loved the performance of that aircraft.
So far so good for my throttle by wire. It gave me true cruise control, vice a friction throttle lock. I think technology can be a good thing.
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Old 11-02-2011, 06:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Also in aircraft the components are located in a clean, dry and smooth environment and are not subject to continuous inputs as is normal for motorcycle operations. With aircraft if one fails and causes a safety problem the entire fleet is grounded until the problem is resolved, if the moco would do that the problem would be solved soon but that is not possible.
I have had 08 , 09,10, and now have 11 rk with tbw with no problems after the delay problems was resolved in the early 08 model. One reason I trade every year is my lack of confidence in the new technology and I normally ride about 40k miles yearly.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Well luckily the Ultra is not a fighter jet but I found out today that it was not a one time glitch as it happened again. This time, I just got done passing a 18 wheeler and pulled back into my lane and no throttle. Pulled over to the side of the road (I am sure the trucker thought I was some kind of idiot but at least he did not run me over) Tried cycling the ignition again several times did not work. I wiggled the wires going into the flat plug on the throttle body and tried it again this time it worked. Either coincident or related. I got the bike home ok but will check out the plug when the bike cools down. Anybody replaced this part of the wiring harness?
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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First try taking the connector off and clean with contact cleaner, then put a light coat of dialectric lube on the contacts and re-install.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Before cleaning the throttle control connector I check for TCM codes. Two codes were stored P1511 and P2135. No surprise here since my problem is throttle related.

I cleared the codes. I then pulled the throttle control connector, cleaned contacts with rubbing alcohol and then coated with dielectric grease. Put it all back together. Bike runs fine but I have not had a chance to take it for a test ride yet . I also wiggled the connector at the ecm to see if I could set of a trouble code while running and it did not..

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Possible 09 H-D Touring Bike Wiring Harness Issues
Some Technical people I trust reported a potential wiring and ECM connector problem on the late model Harley-Davidson Touring bikes through other channels. This issues is something that others have probably found on some of TC96/103/110 Touring bikes. These wiring problems can cause Check Engine lights to occur and possible engine running issues.

While any unconfirmed report like this should be treated cautiously by any rider, there is strong circumstantial evidence to support this information. There were reports within 72 hours of additional 12-14 2009 and possbily two 2010 Touring bikes exhibiting the symptoms described in this article.

This issue is only seen the FL Touring models (fly-by-wire) and may have appeared as early as 2008, but has been confirmed on 2009 bikes. It has already been seen in the 2010 Touring bikes. This problem can occur while sitting still or riding. It affects Throttle Control, there-by affecting cruise control and other engine speed functions. The primary area impacted seems to be the +5VDC and ground circuit wiring harness connections at the ECU, but all portions of the connector can be a problem. The +5VDC and sensor ground disruption can also affect the sensors for emission control throughout the bike.

On a side note, this situation would explain the problems noted with riders attempting to use XiED's on their 2009 Touring bikes. Nightrider has always contended the XiED's were not working on the 2009 Touring bikes because of a ground fault issue with the H-D ECM or a problem with the +5-0V Throttle sensor signal. A situation were the +5VDC sensor signal and sensor ground signal from the ECM was being disrupted by the ECM wiring harness connector would explain the symptoms seem during XiED testing on the 09 Touring bikes.

One simple test for this condition has been to remove the seat, start the bike and wiggle the harness near the ECM connector and watch for a check engine light. An effected bike will have a CE light come on intermittently and in some cases, the light may stay on after a code is set.

We do not know if this is a systemic problem with all the late model fly-by-wiring Touring bikes or an anomoly, but circumstantial evidence indicates the situation is very easy to recreate on 2009 and few 2010 bikes the simple test has been tried on.

Some of the temporary fixes to this situation seem to be:

*Move and secure the wiring harness while trying to relive the strain against the connector
*Using some washes or spacers under one end of the ecu, changing the angle of the 2 mating connectors on the ecu.
*In some extreme cases, strain relief slots may need to be cut in the seat pan to prevent pressure on the ECM or wiring harness
*Some aftermarket seats do not appear to fit as tightly against the ECM and wiring harness.

Any of these methods may provide temporary relief to the strain on the connector, but the problem would seem to be a poor job of engineering or manufacturing of the ECM connector or wiring harness connector by Harley-Davidson. Our unconfirmed 'inside information' indicated that these connectors were designed with a very limited insertion life. What this means is that the connector may not properly seat after couple of removal/insertion cycles or in the case of the H-D, simple flexing of the connector because of routing of the cable under the seat of engine vibrations. If the connector is not properly seating, very critical sensor voltages are not available or the grounds may not be made, which can create situations were the sensor are misread. The resulting failures when associated with the throttle circuit or O2 sensor circuit can be unpredictable at worst or cause Check Engine lights at their most benign.

If you have are able to recreate this issue with your 2008, 2009 or 2010 Harley-Davidson Touring bike, we recommend you contact your local Dealer and show him the problem. You may want to cosider filing an incedent report with Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to ensure that H-D gets the message.

We are attempting to gather more information on this situation and will report any changes. If you test your bike for this issue, please e-mail your results good or bad to Nightrider. If this report is true, we want all riders to be aware of the situation. If the report is isolated to a few bikes, then we want to be able to correct our reporting to accurately reflect the correct information.

As of Aug-13-2009, we have even more circumstantial evidence that there are issues with the latest engineering revision of the H-D wiring harness connectors at the ECM. There were specific indications of 2009 Touring bikes with different connector types where the newer part number exhibited issues with the XiED's and the older part number more commonly used on the 2008 Touring bikes allowed the XiED's to work without any problems. We cannot explain the older revision connectors showing up on late manufacture bikes. Nor is it our intent to speculate on this high incedence of the connectoris showing up towards the end of the 2009 Touring bike run. Our only intent is to identify and resolve the issue so 2009 H-D Touring bike riders can use the XiED's on their bikes. We will continue to report updates as they occur.
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