103 Stage 3 kit or 103 Stage 2 kit? : V-Twin Forum: Harley Davidson Forums

jstevens2005 · 03-21-2009, 01:53 PM

Guys,

I've got a 2009 Road King and am looking to do a Harley Davidson / Screaming Eagle kit. (not S&S, or anything that i have to peace together.)

I was originally looking at the Stage 4 kit, and decided on the Stage 3 kit (as per the HD Screaming Eagle catalog it looks like the kit has good TQ and HP from 1500 to 4000 rpm's etc.. which is were I like my power band to be. The Stage 4 kit seems to be in the Higher RPM ranges and is more for HP. I like the price of the Stage 3 kit at around $2,300.00 for parts and labor which might give me around an estimated 100hp, and 100tq at the rear wheel. Actuall kit costs $1499.00 in parts.

My dilemma is the the Stage 3 kit will invalidate my engine from a coverage perspective as it "won't be covered under the 5 year warranty that i purchased."

But the 103 Stage 2 kit if installed "will" be covered. The Stage 2 includes the Stage 1 parts, High Flow Air Filer, block of plate, etc..
At the Stage 2 kits seems to also produce a modest 70-80 TQ and HP as shone in the Screaming Eagle Catalog. The Stage 2 kit costs $899.00 in parts which is cheaper then the Stage 3 and 4.

1) In your opinion is the Stage 2 kit worth it from a performance and Warrenty perspective?
2) Do i need to still purchase the SERT / Super Tuner with a Stage 2 / 1 kit setup?
3) If you didn't know it already the cool thing on the Stage 3 kit was that the kit came with the $450.00 Super Tuner. But I'll have to trun right around if i go with the Stage 2 and purchase the tuner which basically brings me back to to the Stage 3 price.

My feeling is i'm leaning towards the Stage 2, but want advise on what else i need in my setup. Also It seems that I'm spending more money, taking a power lose, all in an effort to keep my warranty.

4) Do you think i'll still be happy with the performance gain all things considered?

ryanl · 03-21-2009, 02:39 PM

I personally wouldnt spend money on any of the screamin beagle stuff but thats just me. From a performance standpoint it just doesnt seem worth it. If you do decide to do it, make sure it really doesnt void your warranty. My dad purchased a warranty and had stuff done on his bike by the dealer. As he was told if the dealership did the work when he bought it, that his warranty was good to go. Now he can only take it in to the dealership where he bought it to have his warranty work done, becuase I guess they basically have to lie for him to get it covered. Well guess what, he has a problem with the bike and has taken it back 4-5 times and they cant figure it out. Guess they are getting tired of messing it with it. Because now the dealer is saying,
"well you know we are just doing you a favor anyway since its not really covered under warranty with this engine work we did for you" He is pissed. Like I said I wouldnt let one of my local dealerships change a tire for me, but thats just me. YMMV

As far as you being happy with it from a performance standpoint, if you are expecting to be at or over 100hp/tq with the 103 kit then I dont think you will be. A guy I know is right around 100hp/tq on an motor he built. He routinely eats up two guys that ride
SE 110's

ryanl · 03-21-2009, 02:43 PM

oops keyboard happy

ceraaa42 · 03-21-2009, 08:19 PM

The stage II kit that consists of 103" and SE255 cams and a great bang for the buck kit. The best IMO. If you go to the dyno section and my indepth report is about 3 pages back. It's perfect on a bagger. BTW, this kit is about $630 with shipping from Zanotti HD.

The stage III kit I guess is the 110". This has been a problematic upgrade. If you read American Iron Mag. the last four issues Donny Petersons column has been on the headgasket problems with the 110". This is also expensive since you have to pull the engine down to bore the cases for the bigger cylinders. You could have a screaming 103" built for less that would wax the 110".

I have no experience with the Stage IV kit, if that's the 113".

If you have any questions on my build, just ask or send an IM.

Chris

jerry34208 · 03-21-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstevens2005

Guys,

I've got a 2009 Road King and am looking to do a Harley Davidson / Screaming Eagle kit. ...4) Do you think i'll still be happy with the performance gain all things considered?... Wish you the best but I once thought like you do and it cost me a lot of money to learn the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanl

I personally wouldnt spend money on any of the screamin beagle stuff but thats just me. From a performance standpoint it just doesnt seem worth it. If you do decide to do it, make sure it really doesnt void your warranty. My dad purchased a warranty and had stuff done on his bike by the dealer. As he was told if the dealership did the work when he bought it, that his warranty was good to go. Now he can only take it in to the dealership where he bought it to have his warranty work done, becuase I guess they basically have to lie for him to get it covered. Well guess what, he has a problem with the bike and has taken it back 4-5 times and they cant figure it out. Guess they are getting tired of messing it with it. Because now the dealer is saying,
"well you know we are just doing you a favor anyway since its not really covered under warranty with this engine work we did for you" He is pissed. Like I said I wouldnt let one of my local dealerships change a tire for me, but thats just me. YMMV I got the same treatment at my local dealer.

As far as you being happy with it from a performance standpoint, if you are expecting to be at or over 100hp/tq with the 103 kit then I dont think you will be. A guy I know is right around 100hp/tq on an motor he built. He routinely eats up two guys that ride
SE 110's

Live and learn. Best wishes..

iclick · 03-21-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceraaa42

The stage II kit that consists of 103" and SE255 cams and a great bang for the buck kit. The best IMO. If you go to the dyno section and my indepth report is about 3 pages back. It's perfect on a bagger. BTW, this kit is about $630 with shipping from Zanotti HD.

I agree although I haven't had direct experience with the whole kit. I just installed the SE255 cams in my TC96 with Fuel Moto Power Package (PCV-AT, AC, and Dyno-Tuned Jackpot muffers), which I already had on the bike, and I'm very impressed with the results. The cam change alone moved my TQ curve up impressively, not up and to the right with a corresponding decrease in low-end TQ. It is not a racing cam and does not produce copious peak-HP numbers, but is very strong in the low-end, midrange, and up to about 5500 RPM's. I spend most of my time below 4K, so this is perfect for me.

With the added c.i. and compression afforded by the 103 kit I would think this would be a clear winner for the money. What I would advise is to go in another direction rather than with the SEAC and any HD muffler. Look into the Stage 2 kit and adding the Fuel Moto Power Package, described here.

IzzoQuazzo · 03-22-2009, 10:47 AM

The OP expressed an interest in keeping his warranty. I felt the same way. I had the Stage II installed on my 2009 SG. I also had them install the SE Touring muffler. It runs very strong in town and on the highway. I have 83HP and 99TQ. And best of all it's all covered under warranty. That warranty is good across the country, no matter what the alarmists say here. It's not the dealer's warranty it's HD. Oh yes, and I have the Stage II ECU download. An aftermarket unit such as the PCV or Fuel Pack can void the warranty.

Eddie Haskell · 03-22-2009, 06:14 PM

Check this out, very nice bang for the buck.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/dr...stage-2-a.html

Keith E. · 03-23-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Check this out, very nice bang for the buck.
http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/dr...stage-2-a.html

Nice bump there and all H-D for those that need it.

Keith

jstevens2005 · 03-23-2009, 02:45 PM

Thanks guys for all of the feedback. I've made up my mind and planning on going down this path in 4-5 weeks. I'll be sure to post the results.

I don't have access to link that cross references above to the other post and that guys dyno "before and after" results. Can someone post the picture in this thread so that it "displays" in the Dyno chart itself rather then just showing the "attachment"?

Thanks
jstevens2005

ryanl · 03-23-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IzzoQuazzo

The OP expressed an interest in keeping his warranty. I felt the same way. I had the Stage II installed on my 2009 SG. I also had them install the SE Touring muffler. It runs very strong in town and on the highway. I have 83HP and 99TQ. And best of all it's all covered under warranty. That warranty is good across the country, no matter what the alarmists say here. It's not the dealer's warranty it's HD. Oh yes, and I have the Stage II ECU download. An aftermarket unit such as the PCV or Fuel Pack can void the warranty.

I think you might be right about the warranty issue. My father does have the PC installed. But Im almost positive the dealer indicated that the pipes were what voided his warranty. In any event it clearly states in the catalog that if installed by a HD dealership the parts in THAT KIT specifically will not void your warranty. So as long as they use those parts in the kit you should be good to go.

bigbluff · 03-23-2009, 03:32 PM

I've finally got my 103 Stage 2 broken in. I love it. It is the best bang for the buck you can get. No, the guys down at the pool hall won't be impressed with the dyno chart's horse power numbers. But what you feel on the road is incredible. That SE255 cam is quite impressive down low. Geez, at 2500RPM it is making more torque than the stock 96 at peak! Hits like a hammer! And all covered by Harley's warranty. You'll love it.

ryanl · 03-23-2009, 03:34 PM

Also, the OP states that the stage2 kit produces 70-80 tq/hp Per the SE catalog. And I know there dyno #'s are on the high end. Then we have a dyno sheet with a guy claiming his is SE stage 2 kit is making 105tq and 90hp. What am I missing here?

bigbluff · 03-23-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanl

Also, the OP states that the stage2 kit produces 70-80 tq/hp Per the SE catalog. And I know there dyno #'s are on the high end. Then we have a dyno sheet with a guy claiming his is SE stage 2 kit is making 105tq and 90hp. What am I missing here?

The numbers quoted from the SE Catalog have just about got to be in error because those numbers are pretty danged close to the stock numbers of a 96 inch engine.

I've never cared to have one of mine put on a dyno. My seat of the pants dyno works good enough for me, and this thang is putting a smile on my face which it the only read out I need.

ryanl · 03-23-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluff

The numbers quoted from the SE Catalog have just about got to be in error because those numbers are pretty danged close to the stock numbers of a 96 inch engine.

I've never cared to have one of mine put on a dyno. My seat of the pants dyno works good enough for me, and this thang is putting a smile on my face which it the only read out I need.

That is whats important. Im not spending money to make big numbers in rpms that I dont ever ride in. But I want it to run good, which is where the dyno and tuning process come into play. I was just curious if I was missing something because of the discrepencies in numbers.