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Old 01-15-2013, 12:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy '06 Sportster bogging and almost dies

Hi guys, so I just bought a 2006 883 with 8500 miles on it. The bike is really clean and garage kept, it was actively ridden throughout the summer last year and stored in a garage up until I bought it in December.

I test rode the bike prior to purchase, but just for a few minutes. I bought the bike on consignment through a dealer about 45 miles from my house, but they merely handled the transaction (no service was done). The bike was delivered just after Christmas and due to inclement weather the bike sat up until last week.

I took the bike out for the first real ride about a week ago and I noticed that after about 10 minutes or so of riding, when I would come to a stop the bike would bog heavily, there was little to no throttle response (that is to say that I would turn the throttle and it would bog further) and the idle would be close enough cutting out that I had to pull over.

This was bad for a number of reasons: firstly it really primarily happened when I would go to pull away and caused a fairly close call with a left turning vehicle that mistook my sluggish acceleration as an invitation to go ahead. Second, the check engine light momentarily came on during the bogging which startled me and lastly, moments later (approximately 10-15 seconds) the bike returns to normal operation and performance.

Needless to say this has made me really apprehensive towards riding this bike any further until it is resolved.

In terms of modifications to the bike, it does have straight pipes without mufflers or baffles. To this, the tech at the Harley dealer noted, through a cursory evaluation, that the air filter was appropriately modified to work with the pipes and that the assumption at that point was that the carburetor had also been jetted in accordance with the exhaust. No further examination was done to verify if the carb was jetted.

I spoke with the previous owner who had been honest and open throughout the entire transaction (that is to say I have no reason not to trust him) and he stated that, in his experience with the bike, this issue had not come up and he had purchased the bike with the pipes installed as they are today. He did not know if the carbs had been jetted or not.

After it happened the first time, I brought the bike home, pulled the plugs and examined them for excessive fouling. I noticed that they were fairly well burned so I opted to swap them out for new, replacement plugs. I added fresh fuel in addition to the plugs and decided to take the bike out once again.

I did note at this time that despite retracting the choke to full open upon starting, it very quickly closed itself, I assume, due to the vibration caused by the motor. I tightened the nut holding the choke handle in place, retracted it again to full open (to which it stayed retracted) and allowed the bike, what I believe was, appropriate time to reach operating temperature.

Once again after about 10 minutes or so of riding, I came to a stop and noticed the same sluggish throttle, excessive bogging, brief flash of the check engine light, followed by a return to normal performance a moment or so later.

So my question to this esteemed board of experts......

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? My feeling is that it could be a coil, it could be a dirty carb, it could be fuel contamination, but I'm really not familiar enough with Harley's to make an educated guess so that's why I turn to the masters of all things HD......the V-Twin Forum members!

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Sean
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If the jets were not changed I would assume that you would get the carb farts due to the bike being lean. If someone attempted to change the jets and went to big the bike would be running rich. I would pull the bottom of the carb and see what jet(s) the bike has in it. It should have a 175~180 main and I believe a 42 slow jet.

If that all seems good I would adjust the carb (idle, air/fuel mixture) and take it out for a ride.

The 04'~06' Sportsters have problems with the crank position sensor failing. They show different symptoms but mine never acted up until after the bike was warmed up and running for awhile.

You could pull the error codes and see if you get lucky with one.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Bogging Down

This is usually caused by restricted fuel or carb jets. If the bike sat for a while and had old fuel in it, they get are a bit clogged. Pour some carb/injector cleaner in the tank at the right amount for a full tank, and go ride it. Stay close to home, but get the rpms up to blow out the carbon. You don't have to go fast just stay in a lower gear to keep RPMs up. If you can purchase Texaco or Mobil gas. It has the cleaner added into the fuel. Don't buy from old gas stations with old tanks in the ground. Be sure you don't have water in the fuel which happens more frequently in winter than summer because of condensation in the tank.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks so much for the feedback! I haven't had a chance yet to try any of the suggested solutions but I did have a question. In my experience (with cars) when the crank position sensor goes the engine with cut out completely and typically be difficult to start again. Is that the case with HDs as well?

My thought has been that the cause of the issue is one of three things: carb/fuel, choke/enricher, coil/spark. I hadn't thought about the CPS or any other issue. The Check Engine light does not stay on long enough to get the OBD tool to display a code so I'm really grasping at straws to a certain extent.

Making matters worse, I really can't find a reliable way to replicate the issue so I'm not even sure that a dealer will be able to help. If anyone else has experienced anything similar or......if anyone is a mechanic in the Central New Jersey area....please feel free to PM me.

Thanks again guys!
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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If the CPS would completely fail you are correct the bike shouldn't run but most of the time they work and cut out once the bike gets warm. At least that has been the majority of the ones I have heard start to fail.

Do a search on the forum on pulling the codes. You don't need any tools just a sequence of steps (pushing in the button on the back of the speedo, powering the bike) that I don't remember fully. The bike may not keep a light on if it has a code stored mine didn't.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:56 AM   #6 (permalink)
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OK, I have a couple of comments.
I recently had a buddy with a failed CPS. The bike would start and idle but die instantly when the throttle was used. This may not be typical, but it happened.
Also, Harley sells a lot of coils, mostly to people thinking the coil has to be the cause of their problems. Forget the coil, it's OK.
The carb bikes I have owned will skip and miss at even speeds when the jets needed cleaning. Pouring crap in the tank will not do it, you need to remove and soak the jets in cleaner (or better to replaced).
This kind of problem can cause a lot of aggravation and frustration. I'd be more inclined to take it into the dealer and get it checked, be done with it. The blinking light suggests they will be able to easily find the problem.
Let us know what happens.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Again, I really am so grateful for every bit of information from the members here, it's awesome to have the insights of people with far more Harley experience than me.

I had the bike out yesterday for a few hours and I had a couple of things happen:

1. The bike started right up and idled fine while on the enricher, but once I closed it (after about 10 minutes of warming up) it idled ok....but not great. It kind of bobbled around and sounded like it might stall out, but never really did. I blipped the throttle and it sprang to life as normal.

2. Right out of the gate something wasn't right, I pulled down the street and it was doing the same thing as last time, bogging, popping, and it really felt like it was going to die. After 20 feet or so of this nonsense it came back to life and ran as it always did: flawless. That is until the next time I came off the throttle at a stop sign, back to the bog.

3. I pressed on because it was fine once I was moving, and as I entered the next town about 4 miles away and had to come off the throttle again, it bogged and sputtered, but this time it was really intermittent, even at about 2500 rmp in third gear it was hesitating and I had to keep pulling the clutch and blipping the throttle just to try to clear it all out.

4. I stopped for coffee in the town, let the bike cool of for a few (it had run less than an hour) and then headed back for home because I wasn't comfortable with what was going on with the ride. On the way back, I came off the throttle to slow before a tight turn and it actually stalled out for the first time. It started right back up and made it home without further incident.

5. I got home and pulled the rear plug to take a look at it. It was white on the electrode and black at the base. The only thing abnormal about this is that these plugs have about 10 miles on them. I replaced them right before the ride (thinking that maybe I was having a spark issue).

6. Last piece of the puzzle: I reinstalled the plugs after cleaning them off slightly (I really don't think it made a difference I'm just including this detail) and decided to take it back out for one last ride. I have to note that I'm really gun-shy about riding this bike right now because the hesitation is erratic and it bogged heavily and abruptly as I made a left turn through traffic causing me to swerve under no power to the shoulder in order to avoid a truck, but I wanted to see if I could identify where the popping was coming from. Anyway, I headed out the same route that I took earlier in the morning and had no hesitation, no popping and no symptoms of any issue. The bike rode flawlessly as always. It rode so well, in fact, that I took it up a long stretch of winding river road and really was able to open it up. On the return home it stumbled only once, very slightly, as I came to a traffic light, but otherwise it was fine.

This is really leading me to believe that it is a crank sensor issue that is happening intermittently. I've read a few other posts that seem to suggest some owners, especially those with '04-'06 models, have had a similar gremlin that appears and then seems to disappear. To this, I went ahead and ordered a new part (it wasn't very expense so I figured why not) and I'm going to install it this week to see if it changes anything.

If anyone out there has seen something similar, please let me know how you resolved it. If anything in my detailed depiction of this last ride shows something that I don't.....please let me know!! Thanks again guys, it's amazing to have all this knowledge in one place, and I can't thank you enough for any and all advise.

Cheers!
Sean
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Sounds like a dirty carb to me. I have seen it many times.. Remove the bowl and then the jet and the needle. Blow it out with compressed air. Good idea to remove the mixture screw also to clean idle passages too. This is very common since they added 'corn liquor' to the gas.. If it has been siting for months (last winter) - the carb WILL be dirty. You may see a bunch of orange crap in there, as I have seen in all types of bikes that sit too long with gas in them.

Good luck!
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Before you install the CPS and can't return it (electrical) why don't you go to a parts store and pick up a paint can parts cleaner wash. Remove your carb and completely disassemble it and let it soak over night in the cleaner. Get some carb cleaner in an airesol can and clean the parts cleaner off the pieces and put it back together.

There are numerous web sites and youtube videos on how to put one together and get it tuned.

If you don't feel comfortable doing this you could always take the carb to an indy shop and have them do it for a small fee.

If you left the choke pulled out some after its warmed up does the bike run any better?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:13 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RK05 View Post
Before you install the CPS and can't return it (electrical) why don't you go to a parts store and pick up a paint can parts cleaner wash. Remove your carb and completely disassemble it and let it soak over night in the cleaner. Get some carb cleaner in an airesol can and clean the parts cleaner off the pieces and put it back together.

There are numerous web sites and youtube videos on how to put one together and get it tuned.

If you don't feel comfortable doing this you could always take the carb to an indy shop and have them do it for a small fee.

If you left the choke pulled out some after its warmed up does the bike run any better?

Thanks so much for your reply, I was hoping to avoid disassembling the carb, but if that's what it takes, then obviously I'll bite the bullet and do it.

I'm familiar with the paint can of cleaner, but my only real carb-work experience is from Jetskis and my '60 Ford F250, neither of which is really equatable to what I'd face with the HD (if I'm not mistaken). I know that the basics are the same, but my question is: how complicated is the cleaning or re-jetting process?

My hope is that the CPS replacement will resolve the issue, and for the record the part was only $26 and, from what I've heard on the forum and elsewhere, has a history of failure, so I figured I'd give it a shot before I took to wrenching on the carb.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc O View Post
Thanks so much for your reply, I was hoping to avoid disassembling the carb, but if that's what it takes, then obviously I'll bite the bullet and do it.

I'm familiar with the paint can of cleaner, but my only real carb-work experience is from Jetskis and my '60 Ford F250, neither of which is really equatable to what I'd face with the HD (if I'm not mistaken). I know that the basics are the same, but my question is: how complicated is the cleaning or re-jetting process?

My hope is that the CPS replacement will resolve the issue, and for the record the part was only $26 and, from what I've heard on the forum and elsewhere, has a history of failure, so I figured I'd give it a shot before I took to wrenching on the carb.
i hope this helps. http://youtu.be/Deh7UqqkbKc
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Hey Rotten Bob, thanks so much for the link! That's an awesome example on how to disassemble the jets. I'm still waiting on the CPS to arrive via UPS so my thinking is that I'll take this time to try and clean out the carb and jets.

That video definitely helps, for me it's imperative that I know which screws to remove. The last thing I want to do is toast the carb!

Thanks again!
-Sean
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Bogging Sportster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc O View Post
Hi guys, so I just bought a 2006 883 with 8500 miles on it. The bike is really clean and garage kept, it was actively ridden throughout the summer last year and stored in a garage up until I bought it in December.

I test rode the bike prior to purchase, but just for a few minutes. I bought the bike on consignment through a dealer about 45 miles from my house, but they merely handled the transaction (no service was done). The bike was delivered just after Christmas and due to inclement weather the bike sat up until last week.

I took the bike out for the first real ride about a week ago and I noticed that after about 10 minutes or so of riding, when I would come to a stop the bike would bog heavily, there was little to no throttle response (that is to say that I would turn the throttle and it would bog further) and the idle would be close enough cutting out that I had to pull over.

This was bad for a number of reasons: firstly it really primarily happened when I would go to pull away and caused a fairly close call with a left turning vehicle that mistook my sluggish acceleration as an invitation to go ahead. Second, the check engine light momentarily came on during the bogging which startled me and lastly, moments later (approximately 10-15 seconds) the bike returns to normal operation and performance.

Needless to say this has made me really apprehensive towards riding this bike any further until it is resolved.

In terms of modifications to the bike, it does have straight pipes without mufflers or baffles. To this, the tech at the Harley dealer noted, through a cursory evaluation, that the air filter was appropriately modified to work with the pipes and that the assumption at that point was that the carburetor had also been jetted in accordance with the exhaust. No further examination was done to verify if the carb was jetted.

I spoke with the previous owner who had been honest and open throughout the entire transaction (that is to say I have no reason not to trust him) and he stated that, in his experience with the bike, this issue had not come up and he had purchased the bike with the pipes installed as they are today. He did not know if the carbs had been jetted or not.

After it happened the first time, I brought the bike home, pulled the plugs and examined them for excessive fouling. I noticed that they were fairly well burned so I opted to swap them out for new, replacement plugs. I added fresh fuel in addition to the plugs and decided to take the bike out once again.

I did note at this time that despite retracting the choke to full open upon starting, it very quickly closed itself, I assume, due to the vibration caused by the motor. I tightened the nut holding the choke handle in place, retracted it again to full open (to which it stayed retracted) and allowed the bike, what I believe was, appropriate time to reach operating temperature.

Once again after about 10 minutes or so of riding, I came to a stop and noticed the same sluggish throttle, excessive bogging, brief flash of the check engine light, followed by a return to normal performance a moment or so later.

So my question to this esteemed board of experts......

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? My feeling is that it could be a coil, it could be a dirty carb, it could be fuel contamination, but I'm really not familiar enough with Harley's to make an educated guess so that's why I turn to the masters of all things HD......the V-Twin Forum members!

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Sean
...sounds like classic slow jet clogged. It runs with the choke but dies once warmed up an choke off. Old gas, etc., I would suggest yanking the carb and cleaning all of the jets but the slow jet may be toast. Sometimes it's just easier to replace it than to try and clean them out.

My $0.02 worth,

John
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks RF, after looking at that YouTube video the replacement procedure looks pretty straightforward.

This may be a silly questions, but on the CV carbs, are the jets typically marked with the size? That is to say, if I pull the slow jet to replace it will it be stamped "140" or anything? I ask this because I want to replace it with the correct size, and my assumption is, seeing that previously the bike ran fine, that the original owner probably had the bike tuned and the jets replaced to match the straight pipes.

I'm getting the sense from all these posts that the idea of the CPS is probably not the cause of my issues....
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Just a quick update:

I spoke to a tech at an HD dealership in my area about my situation. His suggestion is that due to the check engine light coming on during the "bogging" he believes that it is the Crank Position Sensor. His reason was simple, there was nothing in the carb capable of causing the check engine light to come on.

This makes sense to me, but am I missing something? Moreover, is there something that the carb could cause that would lead to a check engine light flicker?
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